All NA natives are already Duchies before the first European arrives?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Emp_Palpatine

L'Empire, c'est la paix!
69 Badges
Mar 6, 2004
3.444
401
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Thanks again. I used your mod to massively nerf the native govt points. I will launch a burgundy run and see how things are.

If this does not prevent the "all coastal provinces occupied by Natives in 1550", I give up.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:

cetvrtak

Staring at the Converters
11 Badges
Oct 11, 2014
1.705
699
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Crusader Kings II
I assume this is working as designed, but this takes away a lot of fun in that region. Instead of colonizing, it now comes down to waging war, dealing with separatism, religion conversion, ... just like anywhere else in the world.
Same goes for playing NA natives. I was enjoying the diplomatic navigations to expand my Federation, when all of a sudden tribes started becoming Duchies unable to join a federation. As someone already said, it's like playing Europeans with Native unit models. :rolleyes:

Edit: I forgot to mention that within couple of months of one tribe becoming a Duchy, an unreformed tribe declared a "Push back the colonizers" war :D
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
Reactions:

MordredViking

Community Manager
Paradox Staff
Moderator
117 Badges
Nov 29, 2009
1.532
1.174
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Impire
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Thank you for the bug report. I had noticed similar behaviour in my game with Mikmaq. I think its a problem that both Native Americans generate too much Reform Progress, but also that their tree is quite short so its a breeze for them to get the to "westernising" bit. I've highlighted it with the developers so hopefully this gets changed :)
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Red Death

Colonel
67 Badges
Apr 19, 2015
899
1.669
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Thank you for the bug report. I had noticed similar behaviour in my game with Mikmaq. I think its a problem that both Native Americans generate too much Reform Progress, but also that their tree is quite short so its a breeze for them to get the to "westernising" bit. I've highlighted it with the developers so hopefully this gets changed :)
I think it's important to note that people here noticed that it involves a bug in the beta, but the speed without the bug is also still too fast.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Emp_Palpatine

L'Empire, c'est la paix!
69 Badges
Mar 6, 2004
3.444
401
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Rome Gold
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Just a small update : having nerfed (quite heavily) the reform progress for natives, things are back to EU4 normal.
AI CN form, Natives are still migrating. Some wars.

Pretty better than the "all provinces are occupied by settled-down and duchies natives".
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Vohen

Field Marshal
51 Badges
May 29, 2017
2.700
3.281
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
In Europa Universalis/Common/government_reforms/05_government_reforms_natives.txt , after the "modifiers = {" at the very top, change "reform_progress_growth = -1.0" to "reform_progress_growth = -1.15".

You might have to tweak that number a bit, as I can't remember at which value it passes over to removing government progress all together. It's somewhere a bit over 1.
I just took a bit of time to test this modifier, and it doesn't seem to be working at all.
Using reform_progress_growth as a triggered modifier (I went quite overkill for the sake of testing, giving -2.0), and it still didn't show up at all, the native nation was still gaining 0.83 per month.
Even when I changed the government file and gave it "reform_progress_growth = -1.15", it still did nothing
Looking at it closely, it is meant to give a -100% modifier, which would prevent the natives from getting any reform progress until at least having a building to lessen the penalty, making the process much slower and is what seems to be the intended behavior.
But it doesn't work, and tweaking that value would still do nothing, so natives don't get that -100% modifier and end up reforming very fast.
This seems to be an actual bug, not a balancing issue, this modifier isn't working at all, and I think even for RT it was reported to not be working as well, it's the very same bug.

Your mod gave other conditions for reforms like using institutions and such, right?
This may have been what actually delayed the process, not the lack of reform progress.
For the sake of compatibility, I went for a different approach, I used a triggered modifier giving it a flat value with "monthly_reform_progress = -1", so they start the game with a net -0.16 monthly reform progress and need to boost the base value with buildings first before they can get any progress at all, and even then it'd be much slower.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

currylambchop

Star eater gang (she/her)
42 Badges
Nov 25, 2016
3.043
3.687
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
I just took a bit of time to test this modifier, and it doesn't seem to be working at all.
Using reform_progress_growth as a triggered modifier (I went quite overkill for the sake of testing, giving -2.0), and it still didn't show up at all, the native nation was still gaining 0.83 per month.
Even when I changed the government file and gave it "reform_progress_growth = -1.15", it still did nothing
Looking at it closely, it is meant to give a -100% modifier, which would prevent the natives from getting any reform progress until at least having a building to lessen the penalty, making the process much slower and is what seems to be the intended behavior.
But it doesn't work, and tweaking that value would still do nothing, so natives don't get that -100% modifier and end up reforming very fast.
This seems to be an actual bug, not a balancing issue, this modifier isn't working at all, and I think even for RT it was reported to not be working as well, it's the very same bug.

Your mod gave other conditions for reforms like using institutions and such, right?
This may have been what actually delayed the process, not the lack of reform progress.
For the sake of compatibility, I went for a different approach, I used a triggered modifier giving it a flat value with "monthly_reform_progress = -1", so they start the game with a net -0.16 monthly reform progress and need to boost the base value with buildings first before they can get any progress at all, and even then it'd be much slower.
It’s a 1.31.5 bug
 

Vohen

Field Marshal
51 Badges
May 29, 2017
2.700
3.281
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • 1
Reactions: