Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Albion and Empire - A (very) British Victoria II (NWO) Interactive AAR

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye
The Reconstruction Act: Aye
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye
Chancellor's Budget: Aye
[Bureaucrat]
[No Bonus]

Duke Dan "the Man" said:
The Bank of England Act:No

[Policitian}
[Gov.Mp +1 PP}

William Van Vlaanderen,MP for West Edinburgh
Click to expand...

[Private - Labour Party]

To Mr. Hon Van Vlaanderen, MP.

I had, over the last election, worked under the assumption that you were a member of the Labour Party. Otherwise, I would not have gone through the trouble of ensuring you were elected. But now, I see that have made it your public intention to oppose legislation that has been proposed by the leadership of the Labour Party. This is troubling.

You were elected to your seat on a national platform which included the nationalisation of the Bank of England, and for you to vote against this policy in Parliament is nothing less than lying to the electorate. You are moreover weakening the position of your own government, by making it appear weak and unable to pass policy. I have had word from the Prime Minister - I am sure that you are aware that I work for the Prime Minister directly - that if you continue to do this, your future with this government, and indeed the party, will be very bleak.

Let me make it clear that this sort of rebellion - when the Labour Party has a majority of only 10 seats - is absolutely unacceptable, and borders on betrayal to your Party. I advise you to revise your position on this issue immediately, before official disciplinary action must be taken by the Party Whip.

I cheerily hope that your opposition to this Bill was merely a mistake, and that you will correct it as soon as possible. If so, we can all go on our merry way and forget this mistake had ever happened.
​
Sincerely,
Johnathon Staines
Downing Street Press Secretary


"I hate doing the Whip's job for him."
 
Last edited:
I will change my vote immediately
((first time doing one of these,so mistakes will happen))
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye
The Reconstruction Act: Aye
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye
Chancellor's Budget: Aye
[Bureaucrat]
[No Bonus]
 
Duke Dan "the Man" said:
I will change my vote immediately
((first time doing one of these,so mistakes will happen))
Click to expand...

((Fair enough, no harm done. Just make sure you make a new post with your corrected vote in it.

I think we should start using a vague whip system to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen. For everyone's future reference:


A Dummies Guide to Whips - No, Not the Kinky Kind

The British political system has Whips to ensure that MPs vote in line with their parties. Whips are members of the party who have the responsibility to make sure everyone votes the way they are supposed to. By convention, the leadership of the Party isn't actually allowed to tell it's members how to vote explicitly - they can however "advise" their MPs that if they follow the party line they will be rewarded, and if they break it they will be punished.

They do this by sending a memo to all of a Party's MPs with the upcoming scheduled vote, and underline the date once, twice, or three times so show how important the vote is.

  • A single line indicates how a Party's MPs are expected to vote, but is largely non binding. It indicates that the Bill isn't really that important - most of the time, MPs don't even show up for these unless they want brownie points. A single line Bill might be the renaming of a post office, a niche law about fruit bats, or a bill from the Liberal Party. Chances are we won't see many of these in this game.
  • Two lines is more serious. A double line whip requires attendance, and has a general guide on how MPs should vote, though it is only semi-binding. If a Party's MPs are wavering on these votes the Party Whip is expected to either promise reward or threaten punishment to ensure the Bill gets through - smart and ambitious MPs can use this as a bargaining tool to climb the Party ladder. Actually breaking the double-line whip isn't necessarily a career ending move, though you shouldn't hope for a flashy cabinet office any time soon*, and expect dirty looks from your other MP friends. This would fit the majority of legislation in the game.
  • A three line whip is God. All MPs are expected to turn up and vote the way the party wants to. If the three line whip is broken, then the penalty is death by exile expulsion from the Party. Even the suggestion that MPs plan to break this is national news worthy, and losing a three-liner is a sign that something is seriously wrong with the government. Luckily for the more individualistic MPs, this is only used for Key legislation such as Chancellors budgets, votes of no-confidence, and policies which the party was explicitly running on during the election.
  • No lines mean a conscience vote. Follow your heart.
* Cabinet Ministers generally vote the party line anyway, because they're the ones that write the policies. Duh.

Obviously, these are still just guidelines and an MP can vote any way they want. But essentially, for anything above a one-liner, you'd better have a damned good reason not to vote the party line. Sometimes breaking the whip is a great way to trigger a leadership crisis within the party, and gobble up more power for yourself - in those cases you should probably have some friends to help you. Players who aren't MPs are obviously not bound by this in the same way.

On the flip side, having your whip broken is embarrassing for a party, so they should make sure they only try to enforce whips they can actually keep - otherwise they face the almighty backbencher rebellion.

Needless to say, the opposition will have their own whips as well, who will make sure that they counterbalance the government's position in the House. And, for fairly obvious reasons, parties cannot whip for internal party votes or party leadership elections.

While none of us are in-game leaders of a party yet, some of us will be soon. We should probably start getting into the habit of having the most senior member of each party putting a series of dashes next to their votes to indicate the official party line. For example, if Attlee were a player he'd probably do this (correct me if needed, KingHigh):

Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye - (because it originates outside of the Labour Party and the Opposition)
The Reconstruction Act: Aye - (as above)
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye - - -
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye - - -
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye - -
Chancellor's Budget: Aye - - - (Since failing a Budget is an instant leadership crisis, these are always 3-lines)

Why bother with this whip nonsense? Because it emphasises the sort of internal party conflicts that defined British politics in the 20th century, which in the 70s became absolutely brutal (read the wikipedia article on Government defeats in the HoC, and see how many were defeated under Callaghan and Wilson). Diverging from the status quo should have real consequences for rebel MPs, and parties should become volatile if it's leadership tries to push an agenda that the majority of MPs don't agree with.

This might seem a bit pedantic and over the top, but we might end up with a lot of chaos and silly misunderstanding if we don't somehow have a way of making it clear what Parties want their MPs to do.

Edited to put the wall of text under a spoiler.

Just a suggestion for everyone, feel free to rip me to shreds/give this the good old GM veto.))
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:
Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye
The Reconstruction Act: No
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye
Chancellor's Budget: No
[Politician]
[No Bonus]

Jarlath Connor
Communist MP for London East
 
Last edited:
Minimal Subsidies Act: Yes!
The Reconstruction Act: No
"Exempt from National Service"? This is an insult to all those families who lost their houses and their jobs during the war!
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Abstain
I don't think that this act is complete.
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Abstain
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: No
[Politician]
[No Bonus]

Iain Sutherland, MP for Liverpool Walton
 
((I had to edit my vote, sorry for the inconvenience it might cause))
 
A Dummies Guide to Whips - No, Not the Kinky Kinder
Courtesy of Plank of Wood
​
The British political system has Whips to ensure that MPs vote in line with their parties. Whips are members of the party who have the responsibility to make sure everyone votes the way they are supposed to. By convention, the leadership of the Party isn't actually allowed to tell it's members how to vote explicitly - they can however "advise" their MPs that if they follow the party line they will be rewarded, and if they break it they will be punished.​
They do this by sending a memo to all of a Party's MPs with the upcoming scheduled vote, and underline the date once, twice, or three times so show how important the vote is.

  • A single line indicates how a Party's MPs are expected to vote, but is largely non binding. It indicates that the Bill isn't really that important - most of the time, MPs don't even show up for these unless they want brownie points. A single line Bill might be the renaming of a post office, a niche law about fruit bats, or a bill from the Liberal Party. Chances are we won't see many of these in this game.
  • Two lines is more serious. A double line whip requires attendance, and has a general guide on how MPs should vote, though it is only semi-binding. If a Party's MPs are wavering on these votes the Party Whip is expected to either promise reward or threaten punishment to ensure the Bill gets through - smart and ambitious MPs can use this as a bargaining tool to climb the Party ladder. Actually breaking the double-line whip isn't necessarily a career ending move, though you shouldn't hope for a flashy cabinet office any time soon*, and expect dirty looks from your other MP friends. This would fit the majority of legislation in the game.
  • A three line whip is God. All MPs are expected to turn up and vote the way the party wants to. If the three line whip is broken, then the penalty is death by exile expulsion from the Party. Even the suggestion that MPs plan to break this is national news worthy, and losing a three-liner is a sign that something is seriously wrong with the government. Luckily for the more individualistic MPs, this is only used for Key legislation such as Chancellors budgets, votes of no-confidence, and policies which the party was explicitly running on during the election.
  • No lines mean a conscience vote. Follow your heart.
* Cabinet Ministers generally vote the party line anyway, because they're the ones that write the policies. Duh.

Obviously, these are still just guidelines and an MP can vote any way they want. But essentially, for anything above a one-liner, you'd better have a damned good reason not to vote the party line. Sometimes breaking the whip is a great way to trigger a leadership crisis within the party, and gobble up more power for yourself - in those cases you should probably have some friends to help you. Players who aren't MPs are obviously not bound by this in the same way.

On the flip side, having your whip broken is embarrassing for a party, so they should make sure they only try to enforce whips they can actually keep - otherwise they face the almighty backbencher rebellion.

Needless to say, the opposition will have their own whips as well, who will make sure that they counterbalance the government's position in the House. And, for fairly obvious reasons, parties cannot whip for internal party votes or party leadership elections.

While none of us are in-game leaders of a party yet, some of us will be soon. We should probably start getting into the habit of having the most senior member of each party putting a series of dashes next to their votes to indicate the official party line. For example, if Attlee were a player he'd probably do this (correct me if needed, KingHigh):

Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye - (because it originates outside of the Labour Party and the Opposition)
The Reconstruction Act: Aye - (as above)
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye - - -
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye - - -
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye - -
Chancellor's Budget: Aye - - - (Since failing a Budget is an instant leadership crisis, these are always 3-lines)

Why bother with this whip nonsense? Because it emphasises the sort of internal party conflicts that defined British politics in the 20th century, which in the 70s became absolutely brutal (read the wikipedia article on Government defeats in the HoC, and see how many were defeated under Callaghan and Wilson). Diverging from the status quo should have real consequences for rebel MPs, and parties should become volatile if it's leadership tries to push an agenda that the majority of MPs don't agree with.
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: No
The Reconstruction Act: No
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): No
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): No
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: No
[Politician]
[No Bonus]
 
Due to school, I'm extending the voting deadline to Friday @ 6 PM (EST).
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: Yes
The Reconstruction Act: Yes
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Yes - We must continue the legacy of David Lloyd George
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): No
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: Yes
[Politician]
[No Bonus]

~Robert Mcalister, MP for the Combined Scottish Universities.
 
viimane%20lotildepp%20provenci%20ja%20taumlismaumlnguga%20briti%20vaumlike_zps456oayrd.jpg

1_zpstrlajclg.jpg

allkiri3_zpsysgnviay.jpg

​
Minimal Subsidies Act: No
The Reconstruction Act: No
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): No
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Yes
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: No

[Politician]
[No Bonus]
 
Bending to the Tory whip, Gibbons lodges his votes.

Minimal Subsidies Act: No
The Reconstruction Act: No
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): No
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Yes
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: No

[Politician]
[No Bonus]
 
Reeve-Gallant follows the party line, and after a chaotic organisation of the Whip for the opposition changes his votes to suit:

Minimal Subsidies Act: No
The Reconstruction Act: No
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): No
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Yes
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): No
Chancellor's Budget: No

(( Conservative MP for Herefordshire)
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: Abstain
The Reconstruction Act: Abstain
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Abstain
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Abstain
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Abstain
Chancellor's Budget: Abstain
[Politician]
[No Bonus]

-

A snippet of an article featuring M.P Ruaidrí Ó Sitheach

London reigns over a great many peoples, holding their future in its hands, and at this juncture, where we stand at a pivotal moment, emerging from a catastrphic event that was be forever burned into European history, the government is absorbed with distinctly English matters, while we should in fact be focusing on the tenants of self-determination. This is a new age we must live in, characterized by liberty, liberty for all peoples, including the Irish. We must stand against the tyranny of partition, against the injustice of dividing a people and a land.

It is my supreme hope that the Labour government is true to their message of being a party for the people, and not just the English people.
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye
The Reconstruction Act: Aye
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye
Chancellor's Budget: Aye
[Politician]
[Government MP, +1 PP]
-Roland Carpenter, MP for Leicester East
 
Minimal Subsidies Act: Aye
The Reconstruction Act: Aye
National Insurance Act (Government Proposal): Aye
The Bank of England Act (Government Proposal): Aye
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946 (Government Proposal): Aye
Chancellor's Budget: Aye

[Politician]
[Government MP +1 PP]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back