AI's Black Sea Holiday?

[papapyro]

Just had my Karaman game effectively ruined because the Polish and Lithuanian AIs decided that they'd rather see the sights around the Black Sea before they fight the Turks. My alliance of me, the Mamluks (+ vassals), Poland (+ Lithuania, Danzig, and Moldavia), and the Knights had a combined total force of ~80k, compared to the Ottomans' ~40k. The Ottomans were also in a war against Genoa. You'd think that with twice their troops, this would have been an easy fight, but the Poles and Lithuanians just got wiped time and time again as they went hiking in Georgia, leaving the Turks to siege down Polish Wallachia, Moldavia, and even southern Poland proper, until they peaced out. The Mamluks soon followed and now I'm left on my own with no hope and campaign over.
I've seen stupid AI pathing in wars around the Black Sea before, but that was when they couldn't get access to the Ottomans' European holdings but could manage to get to Anatolia, so they took the scenic route. I'm pretty puzzled by this one though, because Poland bordered the Turks through their vassal Moldavia and directly owned land in Wallachia. What made them decide to go all the way around, and is there anything I could have done to prevent this?

 

[LazySiege]

There are some ways you can try to control your allies:

- Try to get them attached to one of your army (i use small stacks like 1-5k for this)
- Set targets for them to siege
- get more mil access from other nations

But to be honest, best way is to plan with out AI allys, i know at start its hard but if you can get a 20k stack of your own you could probally win the war alone by sieging Anatolia while ottoman are in your allys land siegeing them. (User barrage....)

Edit: Correct a mistake.

 

[Blizzrd33]

You'd think that with twice their troops, this would have been an easy fight, but the Poles and Lithuanians just got wiped time and time again

Did you compare army quality at the time you started the war? Total number of troops is not the only factor which is important to who wins a war.

The Ottomans regularly get high tier generals in the early game and Lithuanian army quality is always garbage because they are way behind on institutions compared to almost everyone else in Europe. The Poles are better than the Lithuanians, but until they get all their cav bonuses up and going Otto quality is likely better than theirs.

Ottomans may also have had quantity ideas which could have given then enough manpower and/or force limit to hire mercs in order to rapidly increase the size of their total standing army.

I've seen stupid AI pathing in wars around the Black Sea before, but that was when they couldn't get access to the Ottomans' European holdings but could manage to get to Anatolia, so they took the scenic route. I'm pretty puzzled by this one though, because Poland bordered the Turks through their vassal Moldavia and directly owned land in Wallachia. What made them decide to go all the way around, and is there anything I could have done to prevent this?

The AI will avoid perceived strength of its war enemy and attack somewhere else that it has access to by preference. Whilst you would prefer your allies to do the majority of the dying in battles rather than your own troops dying, you should hardly be surprised that the AI might not choose this?

Setting war goals for provinces you want your allies to siege down is the best way to try and get the AI to behave the way you want them to. You can also try getting their troops to attach to your stack(s) (can be just a small stack of your own) and then walk them to the siege location you'd prefer them to be at.

 

[agonistes]

Just had my Karaman game effectively ruined because the Polish and Lithuanian AIs decided that they'd rather see the sights around the Black Sea before they fight the Turks. My alliance of me, the Mamluks (+ vassals), Poland (+ Lithuania, Danzig, and Moldavia), and the Knights had a combined total force of ~80k, compared to the Ottomans' ~40k. The Ottomans were also in a war against Genoa. You'd think that with twice their troops, this would have been an easy fight, but the Poles and Lithuanians just got wiped time and time again as they went hiking in Georgia, leaving the Turks to siege down Polish Wallachia, Moldavia, and even southern Poland proper, until they peaced out. The Mamluks soon followed and now I'm left on my own with no hope and campaign over.
I've seen stupid AI pathing in wars around the Black Sea before, but that was when they couldn't get access to the Ottomans' European holdings but could manage to get to Anatolia, so they took the scenic route. I'm pretty puzzled by this one though, because Poland bordered the Turks through their vassal Moldavia and directly owned land in Wallachia. What made them decide to go all the way around, and is there anything I could have done to prevent this?

I would have put more effort into guarding the polish troops and relieving the Otto sieges. If that is what is causing you to lose the war, it is the very thing you should have prevented.

edit: now, it occurs to me that you may not believe I addressed your complaint. But I did. Think of it this way: the polish ai may be pissed that you ran off and left it to get rolled by the Ottos.

 

[CthulhuTactical]

Just had my Karaman game effectively ruined because the Polish and Lithuanian AIs decided that they'd rather see the sights around the Black Sea before they fight the Turks. My alliance of me, the Mamluks (+ vassals), Poland (+ Lithuania, Danzig, and Moldavia), and the Knights had a combined total force of ~80k, compared to the Ottomans' ~40k. The Ottomans were also in a war against Genoa. You'd think that with twice their troops, this would have been an easy fight, but the Poles and Lithuanians just got wiped time and time again as they went hiking in Georgia, leaving the Turks to siege down Polish Wallachia, Moldavia, and even southern Poland proper, until they peaced out. The Mamluks soon followed and now I'm left on my own with no hope and campaign over.
I've seen stupid AI pathing in wars around the Black Sea before, but that was when they couldn't get access to the Ottomans' European holdings but could manage to get to Anatolia, so they took the scenic route. I'm pretty puzzled by this one though, because Poland bordered the Turks through their vassal Moldavia and directly owned land in Wallachia. What made them decide to go all the way around, and is there anything I could have done to prevent this?

It doesnt matter how many troops AI have if their army quality sucks. They will not engage armies with superior morale/discipline and since ai cant effectively combine forces, they evaluate their strength on 1 vs 1 basis. Hence they run like headless chickens despite combined numerical superiority. This is why if you want to fight ottomans, at least contribute 50% of their army strength and attach to other stacks or initiate combat near them praying that they join. Sometimes in some campaigns ottomans army quality outclass others by huge margin and you cant do anything -its just random and happens in some campaigns. Your best bet is to always strangle ottomans in the crib, or get yourself bigger and stronger in mid game.

 

[Tempscire]

One of the reasons the AI sometimes chooses a very long route, is that its distance evaluation does not work properly.
AI armies take the distance between their current position and their destination into account when evaluating whether to move towards a specific destination. But instead of looking at the distance the troops actually have to walk, the AI only takes into account the direct distance between the two provinces.
Therefore, as far as the AI knows the provinces Constantinople and Kocaeli always have the same distance. It does not matter whether it can actually cross the strait or not.

So the AI thinks it only has to walk a short distance but going around the Black Sea probably takes like a year. I am not sure why this is the case. Maybe it would be too difficult/computation intensive to implement a better evaluation?