Airplanes

[unmerged(10397)]

How will the evolution of airplanes be handled? Will some nations get a bonus to airplane tech because of certain key figures (example:Fokker) and will there be events modelling the discoveries of people like Samuel Langley with options to support or decline experiments? I really think an event system for technological developements for things like the airplane, railroad, and breechloaders and repeaters would advance the game's realism and just overall make it more interesting.

Questions about this game are going to drive everyone crazy.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

Hopefully the tech tree will be quite diverse and let you go in a lot of different branches unlike EUII. Then it would pay for you to invest in a certain area. I guess that airplanes would be a lot like Land or Naval units, by having an airfield and a hanger to build those flying beasts.

I think that airplanes would be an essential part of the late game where they were starting to become quite influencile in their own early model way.

 

[Killerjes]

I think a lot of the discoveries should be random / events, as in many cases it was not government driven research.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

I hope there are no airplanes in the game it seems a useless complication

airplanes could best be simulated as bonuses to already existing land units

 

[unmerged(485)]

Even at the late stages of WWI airplanes were next to useless in a strategic sense - other than to gather intellegence on the enemy. Sure there were dogfights and a few folks threw a few explosive devices on the folks who were earthbound, but overall they would be equal to the artillery of EU II before you reach the tech which allows artillery.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

This will be one of the little things in the game that will be intresting to see how Paradox handles it. Aviation is one of the biggest advances of the era (if not the biggest), but its signifigance at the time wasnt all that important as stated.

I dont want the ability to research planes, or if I do to not be able to make them poweful at all. Its definately something that has to be limited in its strength. Given the dynamics of WWI and trench warfare a developed avation program could really change that war.

Like tanks, I support a brigade for planes. A weak solution IMHO, but it at least negates a unit type that can really change the war. Imagine if thier is a unit type for planes and has even the slightest tac bombing value, and WWI starts. There will be armada's of planes flying over france in an ahistorical simulation of WWI. I like having the option of changing history, but avation and expanded developed avation really has the chance to be a huge factor in military operations, much like the tank if it is developed to fast, and made to effiecent.

Odin

 

[unmerged(14393)]

Originally posted by Odin1970
This will be one of the little things in the game that will be intresting to see how Paradox handles it. Aviation is one of the biggest advances of the era (if not the biggest), but its signifigance at the time wasnt all that important as stated.

I dont want the ability to research planes, or if I do to not be able to make them poweful at all. Its definately something that has to be limited in its strength. Given the dynamics of WWI and trench warfare a developed avation program could really change that war.

Like tanks, I support a brigade for planes. A weak solution IMHO, but it at least negates a unit type that can really change the war. Imagine if thier is a unit type for planes and has even the slightest tac bombing value, and WWI starts. There will be armada's of planes flying over france in an ahistorical simulation of WWI. I like having the option of changing history, but avation and expanded developed avation really has the chance to be a huge factor in military operations, much like the tank if it is developed to fast, and made to effiecent.

Odin

I actually don´t think that the brigade solution is weak at all...imho it is the only solution. Because otherwisely, as you say, we will have hordes of flotillas backing up the ground troops in ww1.

I think the plane brigade should give a minimum attack bonus...however if you encounter an enemy unit that has plane brigades attached to it as well...then the bonus should be negated (in other words the planes figh it out in the skies above).

Furthermore it would be nice if a plane brigade were to give the units a slight visability bonus.

 

[Tim O]

I definitly like the brigade option, I think divisions with airplane brigades should be able to see another province over.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Originally posted by christianx
I actually don´t think that the brigade solution is weak at all...imho it is the only solution. Because otherwisely, as you say, we will have hordes of flotillas backing up the ground troops in ww1.

I think the plane brigade should give a minimum attack bonus...however if you encounter an enemy unit that has plane brigades attached to it as well...then the bonus should be negated (in other words the planes figh it out in the skies above).

Furthermore it would be nice if a plane brigade were to give the units a slight visability bonus.

We agree then and your last statement of the visibility bonus piqued my intrest. Im no WWI buff, but I do know that planes were used primarily for spotting troop movements etc, not as an offensive or defensive force.

I dunno maybe Im getting ahead of myself but I kinda cringe with Avation in victoria because if it will be a researchable path and can be developed as a stand alone unit then it just dosent make sense. If infact paradox can mod it where the unit changes its attack value when it goes up against another plane brigade unit that would be real nice.

 

[HJ Tulp]

Why brigades?
I'm fine with units as long as they don't have (high) attack or even defense values, they're only for intelligence purposes

 

[Killerjes]

What about the Zeppeliner?
I don't know what impact they had on WWI (they raided London), but they were used for transportation.
I think trans atlantic transportation is an important event, even though it did happen quite late in the period (1919).
Of course this could be pushed by an (more) industrious German player.

"The most noteworthy was the R-34, which in July 1919 made the first transatlantic round-trip flight."
taken from:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/airshipsimon/history.html

IMO flight (in general) is important, if for nothing else then the prestige!

 

[Jools]

Airplanes were important strategically. If it werent for an airplane Paris would've fallen in 1914.

 

[unmerged(15764)]

The airplanes had a huge impact on reconassaince (CANT SPELL!) !

 

[Owl]

Originally posted by azid
The airplanes had a huge impact on reconassaince (CANT SPELL!) !

Reconnaissance .... but good point

 

[unmerged(10945)]

I want to see them represented as units instead of bonuses.

 

[ElPape]

Guys remember this game ends in 1920... By 1923 the russians had the TB3 which is a heavy bomber capable of carrying 4000l bombs.

This is not HoI with a short span and limited way to change the future (other then playing one of the 5 and fighting). This is more like EU, I really think it should be possible altough costly in many areas to develop airplanes and use them in wars.

For me they really should be a unit. Early airplanes could only be used for scouting purposes but later branch could open bombers and fighters.

Planes where crucial in WWI, spotter planes served as intelligence and fighter where developped to kill the spotters, thus better fighters, to the point where you get bombers (better engines, better understanding of flying).

ElPape

 

[supergamelin]

Well planes can be fun but their impact was not that important that you really want to micro manage them in detail. In HOI many players just ignore them as it's just hell to handle. IN WWI their effect was much less.

Moreover there should be a system to prevent players from unrealistically rushing thier research to tanks and planes. Seeing players developing me 262 and Tiger II in 1870 would be nonsense and would ruin the game IMHO

Moreover the military usage of aircraft and tanks was slow to be recognised. at the start of WWI the idea of tanks did not exist. It was slow to develop and met with a lot of opposition. Aircraft developped progressively during the war but air forces were mostly non existent before WWI.

Those were largely science fiction weapons at that time and novelists represented rolling bunkers, pistol combat between airplanes and infantry skirmish under the sea bettween divers coming out of their submarines, but in the end the war was won by a sweeping cavalry charge.

 

[unmerged(13083)]

I agree, the tank and the airplane (in a usefull military role) developed because of WWI. Hence, it would be dumb to be able to rush tech and get really good fighters/tanks earlier.

The brigade proposal seems ok. But you could also just have a seperate unit and station it near the frontline. From there that unit provides reconaissance and perhaps dog fights if another plane is doing the same thing nearby.

Is it really even worth it to give attack bonuses for these early craft? Artillery was so much more effective I don't see the point.

 

[GLENN]

intelligence

What use would an increase in intelligence due as an aircraft unit?

The other side has troops in trenches, and we all know that one couldn't even get to the enemies trenches before being killed.

There were very few shifts in the lines. IT was a stalemate war.

So what practical purpose would this unit serve?

How would I benefit by having this unit?

 

[Plaps]

Knowing how many artillery units they have, if the units are in supply and how many divisions they have in reserve in the province etc. It really depends on how combat is modeled but planes could serve a very vital role... Knowing your enemy just moved a bunch of artillery around Verdun you could send reserves to that front and prepare for an attack.