I would like something like that. And if they could provide an extra province of sight, then it would give a nice flavour and gameplay attribute.Robert Soyka said:
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Hello!
NO, I don't want to "abstract" the factories, calling them "bycicles" or so... this is not a good idea, because the planes are then excluded from the game= Unhistorical
NO, I don't like only that the airplanes give bonus to Navy and so. What then the airplane factories for? To make what?= Inconsistence
NO, the game needs more fun and nearly nobody is coformed with the planes like now=boring , so add them to armies and please don't discuss about stupid abstractions, if I would want abstractions I'd play role-playing games, not historical simulations or so, OK? If you want abstractions and imaginations, go to "Dungeons&Dragons" forums...
Greetings
NO, I don't want to "abstract" the factories, calling them "bycicles" or so... this is not a good idea, because the planes are then excluded from the game= Unhistorical
NO, I don't like only that the airplanes give bonus to Navy and so. What then the airplane factories for? To make what?= Inconsistence
NO, the game needs more fun and nearly nobody is coformed with the planes like now=boring , so add them to armies and please don't discuss about stupid abstractions, if I would want abstractions I'd play role-playing games, not historical simulations or so, OK? If you want abstractions and imaginations, go to "Dungeons&Dragons" forums...
Greetings
What I think there needs to be is two new inventions, warplanes and warplane expliots. the first one would give you early warplanes that didn't even have machine guns (the pilot had a pistol) and were good for reconnisence, and maybe shooting other planes and not much else. Warplane exploits would give you the option of building better red fokker triplanes that did have machine guns and could be used for harrassing enemy troops as well as shooting other planes and reconnisance.
The way the airforce could be handled is there could be a separate pool for airplanes, and you could have a maximum of 1/5 of the airplanes that you could have reserve units. Airplanes would cost airplanes, small arms and perhapse other things that pilots think they need (like liquor and wine and stuff) Each airplane could then be deployed to land that you control and have an army unit setting on. If the army unit leaves, the plane goes back to being undepolyed, If the province is captured the plane is destroyed.
A plane could move up to two provinces, where it would fly around for a few days then return to the province it is deployed to. If it is shot down (ie, if the one guy flying it is killed, then the plane is destroyed. While it is in this province, it would contribute to operations on the ground (by lowering enemy morale, increasing the amount your troops are dug in, speeding up province take overs, or shooting down enemy planes)
The way the airforce could be handled is there could be a separate pool for airplanes, and you could have a maximum of 1/5 of the airplanes that you could have reserve units. Airplanes would cost airplanes, small arms and perhapse other things that pilots think they need (like liquor and wine and stuff) Each airplane could then be deployed to land that you control and have an army unit setting on. If the army unit leaves, the plane goes back to being undepolyed, If the province is captured the plane is destroyed.
A plane could move up to two provinces, where it would fly around for a few days then return to the province it is deployed to. If it is shot down (ie, if the one guy flying it is killed, then the plane is destroyed. While it is in this province, it would contribute to operations on the ground (by lowering enemy morale, increasing the amount your troops are dug in, speeding up province take overs, or shooting down enemy planes)
EHm, why don´t just give us plane-whackos a nice brigade with a small bonus and a nice modifier(like artillery, wich gives an advantage to the side who has more artillery brigades)? I don´t think it would cost Paradox much to put that on a mod, and you´d shut up a hell of a lot of gamers .
Eh well, unlesss it is some sort of principles you guys have against airplanes in this game... though I am pretty much sure the majority of us forum lurkers would like to see them in combat.
.Eh well, unlesss it is some sort of principles you guys have against airplanes in this game... though I am pretty much sure the majority of us forum lurkers would like to see them in combat.
I can see where people are coming from, but an Aircraft brigade??
Lets see if theres any other way that aircraft can get in on the action, as while the current uselessness of aircraft is gauling, the idea of an aircraft brigade doesn't sit right with me either.
Perhaps a 'Combined arms' brigade? Which would include better spotting capabilities, shock, and possibly something else drawn from another brigade?
Lets first take a look at the main uses of aircraft in the WW1 battlefield.
Observation.
Light bombing.
you sure an aircraft brigade really sounds good?
Lets see if theres any other way that aircraft can get in on the action, as while the current uselessness of aircraft is gauling, the idea of an aircraft brigade doesn't sit right with me either.
Perhaps a 'Combined arms' brigade? Which would include better spotting capabilities, shock, and possibly something else drawn from another brigade?
Lets first take a look at the main uses of aircraft in the WW1 battlefield.
Observation.
Light bombing.
you sure an aircraft brigade really sounds good?
I thought airplanes were used in the private sector as mail carriers,fire fighting, maybe more? Why have a factory(expensive factory at that) that has no practical market to sell its goods.
Airplanes need to have a market. Now, how to develope those markets is the question.
Airplanes need to have a market. Now, how to develope those markets is the question.
Silverlight said:
Well it's still abstracting an entire area's industry, rather than one factory. Then you'd got the fact that there are dozens of different types of types of wood and ways to treat them for different purposes.
Silverlight said:
Consultants!
Silverlight said:
Steel is steel, of course there is a big industrial process for making it, it's not just mixing iron and coal in a pot, and it can't be lumped into construction materials since it's needed for ships, artiliery and railroad etc. Cement covers the rest. Automobile factories make cars, motorbikes, trucks, tractors and engines for tanks etc.
Silverlight said:
Airplanes are indeed included under luxuary modern goods.
Sapper_Astro said:
Just what I thought.
An aircraft brigade would be rather strange, considering that's far from their real life use....Sure, I'd love to see aircraft play a (somewhat) larger role, but not as a brigade. Aircraft would be best represented as a separate unit, IMHO, but perhaps that would be too big of a change (meaning that it's doubtful it'll happen).
SR-71 said:
Tough cookies. You need to accept some things are abstractions since there's no way to model the entire world in great detail. Anyway, there's no need to exclude plans, just accept that the airplane factory doesn't just glue machine parts and electric goods together to make planes.
SR-71 said:
I have no idea what this means.
SR-71 said:
Why? The light bombing they could do doesn't show up in a game of this scale and you can already see all troop movement in the next province, not to mention you can just turn fog of war off.
SR-71 said:
The entire game is an abstraction!
Again alive!
Hello!
I think that this is a good moment to come back with this ancient thread I started long time ago...
Perhaps this could be at MODS forum but the issue is the same
Now exist the excellent VIP, and perhaps the VIP designers could add to their excellent work the airplanes, because Vicky designers don't want to.
If an airplane brigade is not historically correct, much lesser accurate is to ignore them, and think they are "sport items", "consumer goods" or another stupid idea.
Be open-minded please. People at WWI killed themselves in air combat, did fight air battles, throw things like bombs to soldiers below, and countries spent lots of money and resources to produce more and better airplanes than ther enemies... but for you defenders of the "abstract" they did waste their money and lives... You are more clever, of course :rofl: , you prefer treating the airplanes like "abstract" and a consumer good... what a pathetic idea, airplanes like luxury goods at 1900... this is really completely historically unaccurate.
Really you don't have respect for the WWI air aces, for you they were stupid flying stupid planes for nothing...
For having another consumer good redefine industries and create a "Gramophones factory" or so... sure is more historical
If unhistorical are the airplane brigades, more unhistorical is to forget the role the airplanes played at WWI!!!!!! And don't forget that the game will be more fun and later stages...
There are lot of manners to add the airplanes to battle in Vicky, if you designers don't want perhaps the VIP designers will want to...
Greetings
Hello!
I think that this is a good moment to come back with this ancient thread I started long time ago...
Perhaps this could be at MODS forum but the issue is the same
Now exist the excellent VIP, and perhaps the VIP designers could add to their excellent work the airplanes, because Vicky designers don't want to.
If an airplane brigade is not historically correct, much lesser accurate is to ignore them, and think they are "sport items", "consumer goods" or another stupid idea.
Be open-minded please. People at WWI killed themselves in air combat, did fight air battles, throw things like bombs to soldiers below, and countries spent lots of money and resources to produce more and better airplanes than ther enemies... but for you defenders of the "abstract" they did waste their money and lives... You are more clever, of course :rofl: , you prefer treating the airplanes like "abstract" and a consumer good... what a pathetic idea, airplanes like luxury goods at 1900... this is really completely historically unaccurate.
Really you don't have respect for the WWI air aces, for you they were stupid flying stupid planes for nothing...
For having another consumer good redefine industries and create a "Gramophones factory" or so... sure is more historical
If unhistorical are the airplane brigades, more unhistorical is to forget the role the airplanes played at WWI!!!!!! And don't forget that the game will be more fun and later stages...
There are lot of manners to add the airplanes to battle in Vicky, if you designers don't want perhaps the VIP designers will want to...
Greetings
(Hehe, talk about thread necromancy; this has to be a forum record )
Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have loads of respect for the combat aviation pioneers that flew in WW1.
However, this ain't Wings of War; you need to look at the large numbers here. Did planes appear in large enough numbers to impact battles, either on land or at sea? I don't know myself, though I can't say I quite can see that that was the case, but if you have some references that show they had an impact on a strategical level, you might have better chances for achieving what you want.
In any case, I think airplanes-as-brigades won't reflect the role they played very well, but the chances for getting changes to the game engine at this stage are most likely miniscule, I'd think.
)Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have loads of respect for the combat aviation pioneers that flew in WW1.
However, this ain't Wings of War; you need to look at the large numbers here. Did planes appear in large enough numbers to impact battles, either on land or at sea? I don't know myself, though I can't say I quite can see that that was the case, but if you have some references that show they had an impact on a strategical level, you might have better chances for achieving what you want.
In any case, I think airplanes-as-brigades won't reflect the role they played very well, but the chances for getting changes to the game engine at this stage are most likely miniscule, I'd think.
How about a new unit?
# automobiles + # airplanes + small arms + artillery
+ # officers _canned goods etc. = 1916 infantry
you can add a tank brigade if you want
# automobiles + # airplanes + small arms + artillery
+ # officers _canned goods etc. = 1916 infantry
you can add a tank brigade if you want
rafiki said:
I guess there are only 4 available, if they can even be modded. Irregulars, Infantry, Cavalry and Dragoons. I wouldn't myself toss any of them out for a short term end of game unit. I never build Dragoons myself though, tried
some as fast artillery didn't like them as much a hussars.
AFAIK, there are only the 4 available; you can vary their base building costs and combat stats and how they are affected by techs.bugreport said:
If you want your 1916 infantry to walk on water, it is.....Sleepyhead said:
I confess I am quite puzzled by the recalcitrance of so many Vicky fans to include the option of air force attachments to military divisions. The only objection I have ever heard to this proposal is: "airplanes were a nascent and ineffective military technology during the era in question and thus would be unhistorical to have in the game".
That is quite simply false. Airpower played a significant role in the First World War. It was used extensively and very successfully in reconnaissance, but also in actual combat operations. For example, during operation Michael in 1918 the Germans paid dearly for the loss of their air superiority as Allied air corps flew round the clock missions bombing and strafing the advancing German infantry. What actual effect this had on the battle in terms of German losses I don't know, but it certainly had a very negative morale effect that was anything but inconsequential —there are few things more demoralizing in war then being at the mercy of an enemy’s unchecked air power.
Moreover, even earlier in the war when actual air to ground engagements were yet to be practical, establishing air superiority over a battlefield was again vital for morale purposes. The symbolic turning point of the battle of Verdun came when the famed German air force that had dominated the skies in the area for weeks was slowly (and quite visibly to the men on the ground) pushed back and Allies reclaimed air superiority over the battlefield.
For all of these reasons, as well making airplane factories in the game something more than an otiose money hole, I think the addition of air attachments (both land and naval) would be a lovely idea that could only improve things.
That is quite simply false. Airpower played a significant role in the First World War. It was used extensively and very successfully in reconnaissance, but also in actual combat operations. For example, during operation Michael in 1918 the Germans paid dearly for the loss of their air superiority as Allied air corps flew round the clock missions bombing and strafing the advancing German infantry. What actual effect this had on the battle in terms of German losses I don't know, but it certainly had a very negative morale effect that was anything but inconsequential —there are few things more demoralizing in war then being at the mercy of an enemy’s unchecked air power.
Moreover, even earlier in the war when actual air to ground engagements were yet to be practical, establishing air superiority over a battlefield was again vital for morale purposes. The symbolic turning point of the battle of Verdun came when the famed German air force that had dominated the skies in the area for weeks was slowly (and quite visibly to the men on the ground) pushed back and Allies reclaimed air superiority over the battlefield.
For all of these reasons, as well making airplane factories in the game something more than an otiose money hole, I think the addition of air attachments (both land and naval) would be a lovely idea that could only improve things.
Indeed. Just think how cool it would be to move a few more divisions with air attachments with them to the battle front and "end the Fokker Scourge", as the "air superiority bonus" switches from the enemy to you.