Airfields for reinforcements and resupplying, Gliders, stealth attacks

[Riekopo]

I've been using Paratroops recently and thinking about the Aircraft mechanics and simulation in the game. There are definitely a lot of improvements that need to be added.

One of the things missing is how Airbases were used in real life for flying in reinforcements and resupplies once captured. Paratroops were often used to capture Airfields for this purpose. One famous example is at Stalingrad where the airfield was used to fly in supplies and reinforcements and evacuate many wounded soldiers. So you could evacuate your precious experienced Manpower instead of them being encircled and wiped out to the last man.

Now, WW2 transport aircraft could only fly in men and certain small equipment. Not like today's giant transport aircraft. Though there were some examples of very large Transport aircraft used by the Germans and maybe Americans. But they're not in the game currently. Definitely need more types of Transport aircraft in the game.

But capturing an Airfield should allow you to supply your Divisions to a certain extent if you have Transport aircraft. It could resupply manpower and the smaller kind of equipment. No Heavy Tanks or anything like that lol. Another example of this is the Battle of Crete.

Also, I think Gliders should be added as well. I think they would basically be like Paratroops except able to fly in heavier equipment. And they would also have somewhat higher Organization. Also easier to train unlike Paratroops which required extensive training. However, they were prone to bad landings which injured or killed the troops onboard. And if they were detected while being towed they were very easy targets for enemy aircraft. However, because they were so silent (had no engines) they could be very hard for the enemy to detect.

In fact, it seems to me like a stealth advantage should be added to Glider troops. Especially if they make a landing at night. Maybe Paratroops should also get a lesser stealth advantage. Maybe if you make a successful stealth landing then the enemy can't see your troops until a certain amount of time passes or they run into one of your Divisions.

You also need flat terrain to land Gliders. They were used extensively during WW2. I think a new Glider type of Aircraft would need to be added and maybe they would also have to be towed by your normal Aircraft when making a landing. I think they might have needed a twin engine aircraft to tow them.

Glider infantry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Military glider - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zauberelefant]

Did you know that gliders and air supply are in the game as command abilities?
They are abstracted, but that's a working thing.

 

[him_15]

Gliders are in the game as part of command ability.

 

[Tachya]

There is the air supply mission, but it doesn't require you to control an airbase, and it's still not clear to me whether the transports are landing in unspecified locations, or dropping supplies from the air. Maybe it's left open on purpose, the transports are just doing the best they can under the circumstances. It's not really the same though as strategically seizing an airbase to move in supplies and reinforcements.

Gliders exist as a command ability, but that isn't really the same as an actual technology that you research and manufacture. It may just be a little too niche to add to the game as such, though the same could perhaps be said about scout planes and armored cars, and yet, here we are.

 

[sekelsenmat]

I wonder why para-dropped troops start with such a low org in the game (was it 10 org? or 30% org?). Yes, paratroopers were often sub-optimal and took severe casualties, but they also often won battles, like in Crete and Sicily. Market Garden also took a lot of casualties but also inflicted a lot, so despite being often labeled an allied defeat I think it was inconclusive (also the germans couldn't afford the casualties while the allies had plenty of manpower).

 

[Zauberelefant]

I wonder why para-dropped troops start with such a low org in the game (was it 10 org? or 30% org?). Yes, paratroopers were often sub-optimal and took severe casualties, but they also often won battles, like in Crete and Sicily. Market Garden also took a lot of casualties but also inflicted a lot, so despite being often labeled an allied defeat I think it was inconclusive (also the germans couldn't afford the casualties while the allies had plenty of manpower).

Air drops increase in effectiveness when you have air supremacy. Anything remotely contested would hit airborne troops very hard.
As does static AA. If you want paras combat ready, use the gliders, remove state AA and all enemy craft in the air.

 

[Zauberelefant]

There is the air supply mission, but it doesn't require you to control an airbase, and it's still not clear to me whether the transports are landing in unspecified locations, or dropping supplies from the air. Maybe it's left open on purpose, the transports are just doing the best they can under the circumstances. It's not really the same though as strategically seizing an airbase to move in supplies and reinforcements.

Gliders exist as a command ability, but that isn't really the same as an actual technology that you research and manufacture. It may just be a little too niche to add to the game as such, though the same could perhaps be said about scout planes and armored cars, and yet, here we are.

At which point where air fields actually used to successfully supply formations above regimental size? As the battle of crete goes, lets say, supply more than the province the airfield is at?

Because getting stuff to an airport does nothing when the frontlines are miles away. You need trains or trucks for large operations.

 

[Tachya]

I wonder why para-dropped troops start with such a low org in the game (was it 10 org? or 30% org?)

Paratroopers don't land in perfect formation. Units are scattered, weapons and equipment that are dropped separately have to be collected, it takes time to get organized.

At which point where air fields actually used to successfully supply formations above regimental size? As the battle of crete goes, lets say, supply more than the province the airfield is at?

Because getting stuff to an airport does nothing when the frontlines are miles away. You need trains or trucks for large operations.

Ok, so why is an air supply mission, which delivers supplies to "the region", valid, but delivering them to a specific airbase is not?

I don't think we're talking about inserting entire armies by air, but air bridges that moved hundreds of tons of supplies and thousands of men per day, did exist in WW2. Granted that the bridgehead wasn't typically established by air.

On Crete, there were supposedly 22.000 German troops and 2,700 Italians involved. Seizing the airfield was a critical moment, and I imagine they may have managed to seize some local transportation as well while they were at it.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Paratroopers don't land in perfect formation. Units are scattered, weapons and equipment that are dropped separately have to be collected, it takes time to get organized.


Ok, so why is an air supply mission, which delivers supplies to "the region", valid, but delivering them to a specific airbase is not?

I don't think we're talking about inserting entire armies by air, but air bridges that moved hundreds of tons of supplies and thousands of men per day, did exist in WW2. Granted that the bridgehead wasn't typically established by air.

On Crete, there were supposedly 22.000 German troops and 2,700 Italians involved. Seizing the airfield was a critical moment, and I imagine they may have managed to seize some local transportation as well while they were at it.

Supply missions that do not use airfields can drop on top of supplied troops, rather than landing stuff miles behind the front, leaving transport to combat units unresolved.

I would kindly ask for that successful air Bridge you mention, because neither crete nor Stalingrad were successfully supplied by air. Crete was taken quickly and Stalingrad....Well...

The crete airfield being critical was to bring any sort of heavy equipment to the Island, deny it to the british, and get wounded personnel back and mountaineer reinforcements in. At no point was an Air bridge in effect, like you describe.

 

[Tachya]

Supply missions that do not use airfields can drop on top of supplied troops, rather than landing stuff miles behind the front, leaving transport to combat units unresolved.

Thanks, the game is kinda vague about how the supplies are delivered, but it seems plausible that it's meant to represent air drops, yes.

I would kindly ask for that successful air Bridge you mention, because neither crete nor Stalingrad were successfully supplied by air. Crete was taken quickly and Stalingrad....Well...

Well aside from the India to China air bridge over the Himalayas, the main ones appear to have been Demyansk and Kuban.

Edit: I'm not sure what we're even arguing about at this point. The OP mentions a number of concepts in one post, one of which is airlifting supplies and manpower. I don't see that it's implied anywhere that the airbase used, would necessarily have been seized by paratroopers. Crete definitely is an example of flying in reinforcements, and more major air bridges did exist, even the Stalingrad one; that it wasn't adequate doesn't negate that. I already acknowledged that the whole concept might be too niche too add to the game.

 

[Spelaren]

Air supply could be a lot more useful and exciting with some changes and additions.
+1!

 

[Eisscrat]

New transport planes with more than 1000km range would be the most needed thing. But the research must be realy short cause the research tree is already overloaded.

 

[Spelaren]

New transport planes with more than 1000km range would be the most needed thing. But the research must be realy short cause the research tree is already overloaded.

Could make it a 31 day research branching from something else like air doctrines. Why air doctrines? Because it makes it somewhat historical since air doctrines take a certain amount of time to research, thus you'll get say "TRANSPORT PLANE TIER III" in 1945 pretty much always, unless you FOCUS on those specifically with focuses and air XP.