Air wing and Navy fleet questions

[BrianV]

So I’m coming from HOI3 took me a long time to break-away too addicting lol and just got used to the sprites over the NATO counters which was a big negative to playing HOI4 but now liking the mechanics now, and trying to learn the HOI4. So I was coming from an air wing size was 2-3 air wings max. A submarine fleet was always 2-3 sub groups so the penalty didn’t get too big. How does this work for HOI4? How many subs can you put in a fleet? A SAg group was always 2-4 capitals and maybe 6-10 screens. what’s too big , what’s the sweet spot? How many planes in a fighter group? Can’t find any of this info on YouTube or anywhere. Thanks for any input

 

[BrianV]

So I’m coming from HOI3 took me a long time to break-away too addicting lol and just got used to the sprites over the NATO counters which was a big negative to playing HOI4 but now liking the mechanics now, and trying to learn the HOI4. So I was coming from an air wing size was 2-3 air wings max. A submarine fleet was always 2-3 sub groups so the penalty didn’t get too big. How does this work for HOI4? How many subs can you put in a fleet? A SAg group was always 2-4 capitals and maybe 6-10 screens. what’s too big , what’s the sweet spot? How many planes in a fighter group? Can’t find any of this info on YouTube or anywhere. Thanks for any input

Also the other rule was never mix CV’s with Capitals is this still true?

 

[porta80]

Also the other rule was never mix CV’s with Capitals is this still true?

No you need 1 capital/cv at least i recommend to have 3/2 also you need atleast 3 screen per capital i also recommend having like 3.5/1.
Air wing size i would use 50, 100 or 200 makes it easier to mange airfoce as the airbase size is 200/level.

 

[BrianV]

No you need 1 capital/cv at least i recommend to have 3/2 also you need atleast 3 screen per capital i also recommend having like 3.5/1.
Air wing size i would use 50, 100 or 200 makes it easier to mange airfoce as the airbase size is 200/level.

thanks, So theoretically if I have a level 10 air base it can handle 1200 air planes total?

 

[porta80]

thanks, So theoretically if I have a level 10 air base it can handle 1200 air planes total?

2000

 

[Kryndude]

In multiplayer, you need to doomstack your fleet because the fleet size penalty has a cap and therefore doesn't really work well as doomstack deterrent. If you don't and your opponent does, you'll lose your task forces one by one. Against the AI, the same rule applies but since the AI doesn't doomstack you have the option to split your battle fleet to save fuel and cover more areas. For convoy raiding, convoy escorting, and patrolling, I find that somewhere between 9~12 is good but you can try it out yourself to see what works for you. As for air wings, smallest possible integer after factoring in mission efficiency if you want to farm aces because ace generation chance works per sortie and the more air wings you have the more sorties each 8 hours or so. But this makes your wings extremely vulnerable to AA and other source of damage because there's a thing called minimum loss or something whenever a wing takes certain amount of damage. So you want to farm only when it's safe to do so. Otherwise for combat purposes, an ace gives maximum bonus at 10 and minimum at 1000. So depending on how many aces you have you want to divide you planes into as much air wings as your aces can cover. If you don't feel like cheesing the game mechanic then you can make wings any size you like because aside from ace generation it doesn't matter in terms of actual combat (unless you make them small enough to suffer from min loss). Game will automatically distribute planes to different battles regardless.

 

[desphorin]

just got used to the sprites over the NATO counters

you can change to NATO counters in the settings...

 

[Mister Analyst]

Also the other rule was never mix CV’s with Capitals is this still true?

The wiki section, Screening efficiency, covers both carrier screening ratio and screening ratio. You also will most likely want to read about the Carrier stacking penalty and the carrier overcrowding penalty found in the paragraph on Deck size.

 

[BrianV]

The wiki section, Screening efficiency, covers both carrier screening ratio and screening ratio. You also will most likely want to read about the Carrier stacking penalty and the carrier overcrowding penalty found in the paragraph on Deck size.

Thanks!

 

[ecpgieicg]

just got used to the sprites over the NATO counters which was a big negative to playing HOI4 but now liking the mechanics now, and trying to learn the HOI4.

You can choose non-NATO counters. (I think it works better with the base game.)

Esc -> Game Options -> NATO counters

A submarine fleet was always 2-3 sub groups so the penalty didn’t get too big. How does this work for HOI4? How many subs can you put in a fleet?

Infinite subs no penalty. But at least until 1.8.2, it is still advantageous to split subs into smallish groups -- pending on their torp stats. More taskforce gives higher chance of encounter overall. And more fleet-wide torp attack beyond a certain point does not translate to more damage beyond the convoy escapes. Until 1.8.2, you use small sub taskforces to "perma stun" convoys in place. Devs fixed that. But I still expect small + many to intercept convoys more effectively.

Myself, I put them in groups of 8, which is probably too many, turn on auto repair, and don't worry about them. (If you start with 4, for example, when some are under repaired, or just outright sunk, you don't have enough.)

A SAg group was always 2-4 capitals and maybe 6-10 screens. what’s too big , what’s the sweet spot? How many planes in a fighter group? Can’t find any of this info on YouTube or anywhere. Thanks for any input

See screen ratio here.

How many planes in a fighter group?

No preference to any. Although bonus from Ace Pilots is reduced for wings above 100 planes. (ie. You benefit a slightly from using many wings of 100 as opposed to larger wings.) Also, I am playing mods only nowadays and at least with the mod I use, a wing with an ace pilot can still generate ace. I am not sure if vanilla HOI4 does that. So if you have more wings, which means more empty slots, you get more aces over time. (Ace generation is determined by strategic area and not wings. But if no sortieing wings have empty slots, vanilla HOI4 used not to generate aces.)

 

[ecpgieicg]

ace generation chance works per sortie and the more air wings you have the more sorties each 8 hours or so

Per sortie is not per wing though. Per sortie is per 8 hour per strategic area.

But this makes your wings extremely vulnerable to AA and other source of damage because there's a thing called minimum loss or something whenever a wing takes certain amount of damage.

Do wings take damage independently or do all planes in the same strategic area in the same mission take damage together?

 

[Anaraxes]

you can change to NATO counters in the settings...

And disable the 3D units, if desired (which is not the same as using NATO symbols on the counters; you could select none, either, or both options). See the Video tab in the game (not launcher) options.

 

[Axe99]

Also on carriers, keep in mind that carrier fighters get significant bonuses to disruption vis-a-vis land-based aircraft, and carrier aircraft also get bonuses to naval strike - so a good idea to at least have a "fighter carrier" to protect the fleet if expected to be facing land-based air. Because carrier battles occur at more-or-less the same time as surface battles, if just facing carrier air, it's possible to get away with no carriers even if the opposition has some, but a mixed fleet looks to be better (although I haven't finished all my testing in relation to this yet).

 

[desphorin]

Ace generation is determined by strategic area and not wings

I dont know if I understand you wrongly, but having more wings does have higher probability of generating ace. Sending 100 1-wing plane to Spain can get Germany to 100% war support easily, not so much if you do 1 100-wing.

 

[ecpgieicg]

I dont know if I understand you wrongly, but having more wings does have higher probability of generating ace. Sending 100 1-wing plane to Spain can get Germany to 100% war support easily, not so much if you do 1 100-wing.

Are you sure that's not because the 1 100-wing has its ace slot blocked off?

 

[desphorin]

Are you sure that's not because the 1 100-wing has its ace slot blocked off?

This hasnt come across my mind. But are they really blocked though? Sometimes when I have say only 4 wings all with aces I can still generate extra ace, though I have no means to access that guy strangely. The ace list could have 5 aces, but I dont seem to ever be able to put the new guy into a new wing.

 

[ecpgieicg]

This hasnt come across my mind. But are they really blocked though? Sometimes when I have say only 4 wings all with aces I can still generate extra ace, though I have no means to access that guy strangely. The ace list could have 5 aces, but I dont seem to ever be able to put the new guy into a new wing.

It used to for sure. It's not blocked for me with 1.8.2 but I am using a mod.

When was the last time you tried using 100 1-plane wings or something to that effect?

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

carrier overcrowding penalty found in the paragraph on Deck size.

Speaking of: it never made sense to me math-wise. I mean, even in "good old days" of -50% overcrowding penalty (which is what represented by that outdated article), you'd still lose efficiency by going over capacity. Now that doctrine only applies 20% reduction, what's even the point of that stat?

 

[Mister Analyst]

Speaking of: it never made sense to me math-wise. I mean, even in "good old days" of -50% overcrowding penalty (which is what represented by that outdated article), you'd still lose efficiency by going over capacity. Now that doctrine only applies 20% reduction, what's even the point of that stat?

@HugsAndSnuggles ,

Can you provide proof that the article is outdated? Or are you really trying to say that the article has not been verified for HOI4 version 1.9.3?

 

[desphorin]

When was the last time you tried using 100 1-plane wings or something to that effect?

Just sometime this past week on 1.9.3, only graphical mods, all dlc