Air Superiority and Strategic Bombing

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todel

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In WW2 we all have seen the foundamental role of airplane, in my opinion in HOI4 this role are somehow secondary. Strategic bombing when we or enemy have the air supremacy should be more effective, up to completely cripple infrastructure and industry. I would like to see the strategic bombing as something to be feared and much more dangerous for industry and infrastructure.
 
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Sun_Killer

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The stratigic bombing never managed to completely destroy the infrastructur. For this you would have to bomb every road, every railroad and every highway. Bomb damage on all of this things is very localised so easy to repair. Yes they can really hurt concentrated industry but infrastructure not so much.
 
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The_Framptonator

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I wonder have they implemented a way for Strategic bombing to affect infrastructure, i know for Industry strategic bombing will be more effective against it in HOI4 than HOI3. For infrastructure i think what they could do is if you target it with Strategic bombers, it should decrease the supply limit for the region targeted, to simulate the damage of vital bridges and main roads. (depending of course on your air superiority)
 

todel

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I mean if I have the total air supremacy in a certain area and i don't know maybe 500 strategic bomber assigned, can i destroy all factories? Because if the enemy can repair them
it's not convenient build a lot of Str.Bomb. I will prefer CAS.
 

The_Framptonator

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I mean if I have the total air supremacy in a certain area and i don't know maybe 500 strategic bomber assigned, can i destroy all factories? Because if the enemy can repair them
it's not convenient build a lot of Str.Bomb. I will prefer CAS.

Well they have to use their own Civilian factories to repair any damage, and whether you completely destroy it, well it depends on whether they have concentrated or spread out industry. But i think strategic bombing will be useful in this game, as you can reduce your enemies IC output and make them have to repair it with their current IC.
This will make your opponent more focused on getting their industry repaired and up and running and not producing Military equipment or more factories.
 
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kalauer

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I mean if I have the total air supremacy in a certain area and i don't know maybe 500 strategic bomber assigned, can i destroy all factories? Because if the enemy can repair them
it's not convenient build a lot of Str.Bomb. I will prefer CAS.

You can only damage factories, not completely destroy them. But it doesn't matter. Repairing or building both occupies civilian IC. So whether strategic bombing will actually be useful is a balance issue which we don't know a lot about. You'll have to test it yourself and come to the strategy of your liking.

Besides, if the enemy has no fighters to put against your Bombers, I pretty much expect them to be devastating. But that assumption is related to gameplay, not historic accuracy.
 
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Kovax

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What I really would like to see would be a choice between medium altitude bombing, which would do substantially more damage to industry at the expense of much greater vulnerability to AA fire, versus high altitude bombing, which would do less damage to industry but take less losses to the aircraft from AA fire. In other words, the ability to go "high risk, high reward" in priority situations if/when you have total air superiority or the enemy doesn't have suitable AA defenses, or a slow but steady long-term approach against a better defended enemy. Historically, the medium altitude method was tested, and may have been quite effective, but resulted in unacceptable casualties under the circumstances. Had the circumstances been different, such as Germany not investing as heavily in AA as it did, then that approach might have been a tradeoff or even preferable: less raids needed, but higher casualties per raid.
 
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The_Framptonator

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What I really would like to see would be a choice between medium altitude bombing, which would do substantially more damage to industry at the expense of much greater vulnerability to AA fire, versus high altitude bombing, which would do less damage to industry but take less losses to the aircraft from AA fire. In other words, the ability to go "high risk, high reward" in priority situations if/when you have total air superiority or the enemy doesn't have suitable AA defenses, or a slow but steady long-term approach against a better defended enemy. Historically, the medium altitude method was tested, and may have been quite effective, but resulted in unacceptable casualties under the circumstances. Had the circumstances been different, such as Germany not investing as heavily in AA as it did, then that approach might have been a tradeoff or even preferable: less raids needed, but higher casualties per raid.


Yes i would like to see the same thing for Strategic bombing, but we'll have to wait till June
 

jalapen0

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Something else I would like to see would be to add a stat for max alititude. If you can build bombers that fly above the max altitude of defending fighters then you can lay waste in relative safety.
 
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Denkt

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You can create a variant that have very high strategic attack but thats about it.

AA reduce the effectivness of bombers so you can say that aircraft try to fly lower the less aa the enemy have at the bombing location thus they can hit their targets much easier.
 

vector1

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What I really would like to see would be a choice between medium altitude bombing, which would do substantially more damage to industry at the expense of much greater vulnerability to AA fire, versus high altitude bombing, which would do less damage to industry but take less losses to the aircraft from AA fire. In other words, the ability to go "high risk, high reward" in priority situations if/when you have total air superiority or the enemy doesn't have suitable AA defenses, or a slow but steady long-term approach against a better defended enemy. Historically, the medium altitude method was tested, and may have been quite effective, but resulted in unacceptable casualties under the circumstances. Had the circumstances been different, such as Germany not investing as heavily in AA as it did, then that approach might have been a tradeoff or even preferable: less raids needed, but higher casualties per raid.

This sounds like a decent doctrine path to mod in for bombing (similar to concentrated vs dispersed industry). I'm really feeling the strategic choices in the different lines of doctrines and techs, and giving more choice to differentiate historical doctrines would be nice.

Also, I remember one of the devs claiming that in a previous johan was an unstoppable USA with thousands of strat-bombers taking out German industry in 1939, so I'm assuming that this has to be/already is nerfed for balance reasons. While it might be historically accurate, it's certainly going to derail games if we can so easily knock out the entire enemy industry by flooding in bombers.
 
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Wimpola

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In WWW with Johan and Daniel we can see the buildings screen and it was flooded with damaged buildings (Germany) and infrastructure so it is very effective but cannot destroy entire nations factories or infrastructure.
 

The_Framptonator

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In WWW with Johan and Daniel we can see the buildings screen and it was flooded with damaged buildings (Germany) and infrastructure so it is very effective but cannot destroy entire nations factories or infrastructure.

Im just glad Strategic bombing will have an impact unlike HOI3

*edit* i take back what i said :p
 
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Kovax

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I recall seeing ONE strat bomber cripple the Nationalists in Spain. They had no fighters to defend against it, and that single bomber reduced them to just a sliver above their offboard IC. To say it had no impact in HOI3 would be badly mistaken.
 
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kalauer

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In WWW with Johan and Daniel we can see the buildings screen and it was flooded with damaged buildings (Germany) and infrastructure so it is very effective but cannot destroy entire nations factories or infrastructure.
But as I recall, that was mostly damage done to infrastructure due to ground fights in conquered territory. Althoug Daniel might have played the strategic bombing down a little in his interpretation :). I was not able to really relate the numbers we saw in the air zone history to actual impact.
 

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in hoi3 i won by 40 as russia by just bombing germany into dust, bombing in hoi3 was op if used right to the point you didnt even need ground forces beyond a defensive line

Yea in a MP player match I just kept bombing the hell out of infrastructure for every region connected to and including Berlin. Kept the Infrastructure at zero on all those areas and just waited for the German supply system to run itself dry.

It was pretty gamey, but I just kind of wanted to just see if it would work. You need alot of TACs to make it happen, but once you reach a critical mass of TACs with enough INT and or MR to keep German fighter cover constantly occupied Its pretty easy to do.

I did the game thing against SU in a game as Germany, same outcome, I just held the front lines, waited for SU to run out of supply. And then just pushed through SU. But to make it work in that scenario I had to push up a small distance and then plop down a bunch of 10x airfields I have on the deployment que in the newly conquered territory.

Bombing in Hoi3 was super OP, if you knew what you were doing.
 

BigBobBear

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It was pretty gamey, but I just kind of wanted to just see if it would work. You need alot of TACs to make it happen, but once you reach a critical mass of TACs with enough INT and or MR to keep German fighter cover constantly occupied Its pretty easy to do.

it was also easy and gamey as hell to just drop some paratroopers and encrcle the capital/supply hub and just air supply them until every one of thier units died of attrition, air power is majorly unbalanced in hoi3 and with this new system it seems they got rid of the micro and made air fun instead of gamey and boring
 

Wimpola

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But as I recall, that was mostly damage done to infrastructure due to ground fights in conquered territory. Althoug Daniel might have played the strategic bombing down a little in his interpretation :). I was not able to really relate the numbers we saw in the air zone history to actual impact.
I remember Daniel saying that Johan's bombers were destroying his factories but anything is possible. Also the nukes destroyed some of the factories as well.
 

Mannstien

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If we have air superiorty or even just some fighters over occupied territory does that increase the visibility of units on map as was in HOI3? I mean sure Strat Bombers aren't going to see much at altitude but Fighters, Heavy Fighters, and CAS since they are attacking land units are could be used as low level recon planes could theoretically provide some sort of info about units in provinces etc. more reliably than decryption techs could and radar couldn't spot land units. Perhaps when or if the Air system is given some more attention after release we can start to use some of our planes that can or were used as recon to do so especially if you control the skies.
 
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