Air Power: worthless?

[Eugenioso]

yes definitely. even with ALL air techs researched and with a large bomber group of lvl 5 strat bombers with carpet bomber doctrines, the damage they do is not only too small, it is also very VERY easy to fix by the AI.

Tacs and CAS are also akin to IC waste. they cost a lot, they suffer too much damage when attacking ground units and they utterly fail to do even insignificant damage. in the end, totally not worth the research/ic devoted to them.

the only marginally good unit is the interceptor. they can stop the enemy bombers and even fighters quite easily and get a bonus when attacking bombers, but thats about it. you could devote those resources into a navy and still get more bang for buck than an airforce could.

also a side question: when playing certain powers im restricted in what i can research as far as naval doctrines go. as italy i cant go the convoy raiding route of developement which pisses me off. is it hardcoded or can i change it somehow?

 

[Negru Voda]

the only marginally good unit is the interceptor. they can stop the enemy bombers and even fighters quite easily and get a bonus when attacking bombers, but thats about it

I don't get why you're so happy about the interceptor, since all it does is stop the inefficient enemy airforce (according to your account, mind you)

I'm not the best, nor the worst of players, but In my experience, I've suffered greatly at the hand of airforce. Perhaps I'm playing a different
Also, make sure to use the bombers during day for max efficiency, and specifically use CAS in combination with actual ground offensives. Also check what ministers you got. Air force dude should be giving you the stats you want for your respective troop build.

If you're doing all this, and still nothing, then indeed the airforce is useless.

 

[Eugenioso]

haha. my friend, i am doing that. trust me, ive tried.

 

[crold]

The air force (except naval bombers and CAG) was never worth the IC when playing HOI, AoD, IC. Some people would disagree. I feel the main reasons for this would be their strong feeling for historic reality and simply because they never tried w/o bombers.

 

[DrakenPL]

I totally agree airforce is imo to weak, and infrastructure is being reubuild so fast that 4 tac bombers can barerly hurt is fast enough to be faster then province regen.

As I posted in that thread there could be a way to balance them without making OP.

 

[Conanteacher]

well, it's weak for Arma, but in AoD i think you have to adjust IC in order to repair provinces...
OK there are no more CAS death stars, but Air force is far from useless.
As USSR I managed to hold the Germans long before Smolensk and Kharkov (Barba started early May!) easily using log strike. And I never build more than 12 bombers before 1942 - and these with crappy doctrines!
-Always attack small stacks, no more than 5-6 enemy divisions.
-always combine your attack with ground offensives
-a little micromanagement always helps...

 

[DrakenPL]

As I'm playing mainly mp games, I can tell you that CAS are almost useless on eastern front, and yes I always combine cas with ground atack.

But really question is that is really 1 CAS squadron worth more then 1 inft div? Because I have feeling it's not, ok you can relocate fast but it it can do shit.

Besides nothing serious will happen if you totally skip air domination on English Channel, air domination in IC doesn't have "oh shit" effect, it's just anoying but nothing else, it can't really cripple your offensive or your forces.

Unless you do like 300 CAS squadrons.

 

[Bismarck1899]

I think tac are very useful. with 12 tac bomber i destroy a division with 3 or 4 attacks but you should mostly use them against troops who are one the move or fleeing.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

I think tac are very useful. with 12 tac bomber i destroy a division with 3 or 4 attacks but you should mostly use them against troops who are one the move or fleeing.

This.

Inderection with aircraft the moment battle begins, it'll help, but when your enemy retreats, switch all units to ground attack, and, especially in small numbers, airfleets can destroy divisions. In my Japan game I managed to destroy most of the Chinese army this way.

Also, units aren't damaged when dug in, and only hurt your aircraft, so they should only be used at the time of an offensive or if they're moving.

 

[aspireunity]

It's Awesome, I love the Design

Airplanes contol the seas. Go ahead, bring your fleet within range of my cas, tacs, fighters, or navs and I'll teach you a thing. On the ground they are a little weak, they get shot down too easy. Ground attack used against dug in troops is worthless, interdiction works better. I can notice their supply penalty rising during the long battles, ,only 5% difference is huge when you think about 5% less casualties to you and 5% more to them. Also, consider the manpower difference in production. In every game I've played as Germany or SU, manpower is the main limiting factor, not ic, and I end up trying to find ways to spend my ic that don't cost a lot of mp. This is also why tanks are great. They give you a much tougher form of mp. Ironically planes are the most effective way to drain the mp of tanks on the move. I think that this is probobly a historically accurate use of planes. They make it very hard to move, since they will spot you and bomb you in the open. Planes do seam to get shot down very easy, but considering the number of planes in a division to the number of men in an inf division makes it clear why. Simply put, planes are very expensive, but a very effective use of mp, especially considering the number of strategic things they can do, which nothing else can. I love my airforce when a force lands an undefended beach, when the enemy is retreating or trying to move anywhere, when my little fleat manages to encounter their massive battle fleat, when I want to bomb the infastructure of enemy land and then follow that up with interdiction on those forces, I love them when my forces in africa need a little help and nothing else can get there, I would challenge anyone to play against me without an airforce, it would be truly pathetic. That's one of the main reasons Germany lost the war, right? They lost air superiority. I think the developers did a great job in making the air force incredibly pwerfull, but not too powerfull.

 

[Conanteacher]

to the OP:

even with ALL air techs researched and with a large bomber group of lvl 5 strat bombers with carpet bomber doctrines, the damage they do is not only too small, it is also very VERY easy to fix by the AI

try doing log attack first and bring the infra to 2%. Then strat.bomb for 2 days and a 12 IC drops to 0.

It'll take 3 weeks to repair.

 

[Eugenioso]

conan: worth it? consider doing that to berlin which has sometimes up to 4 AA and your strat planes will be mush by the time they are done, not considering the fact that germany will probably attack the bombers with interceptors. all the damage done to their IC you suffer for having to divert repair slider to fixing the busted bombers.

aspireunity: agreed, planes do wonders on the sea, but on land their usage is restricted to what you said: single divisions fighting in africa. it would take a humongously ridiculously large amount of airplanes to begin damaging a unit. even retreating units take like 1% damage only after about 3 days of bombing the crap out of them with CAS or TAC.

 

[DrakenPL]

Yup its stupid that you need 12 squadrons of bombers to do something, come on over 1000 bombers?

Imo airforce does not have "oh shit" effect like in real life you need incredible amounts of air power to make your enemy feel it, but problem is do you want 1 strat bomber or 3-4 land divs?

 

[Simon Syndaren]

to the OP:


try doing log attack first and bring the infra to 2%. Then strat.bomb for 2 days and a 12 IC drops to 0.

It'll take 3 weeks to repair.

I think this is part of the problem. A province with everything bombed back to the stone-age rebuilt in three weeks?

 

[DrakenPL]

Imo infra should regen much slower. Maybe fast to some value like 20% then go way slower but dunno if that's possible to code.

 

[unmerged(309587)]

I think air power is generally handled well. For starters, there is a lot of evidence that shows that the allied strategic bombing campaign in Germany only served to kill many civilians. Production actually went UP (Germans just switched production to underground factories). Japan is another story however, the bombing campaign there brought them to their knees. Logistical strike works as intended. Someone said something about 4 AA's smashing your Strat's. Well put 1 Strat unit on Installation Strike while the others strat bomb? Seems pretty simple to me. I do think that CAS damage to units should be increased and their damage taken decreased. But as has been said, CAS perform wonders on single divisions and retreating forces. Micromanagement is key to using an airforce, if you don't want to micromanage just stick to Int/Fighters and Naval Bombers. Interdiction is an amazing function as well and works excellently. Just my two cents.

 

[unmerged(207446)]

I am more concerned about the incapacity of air power in a tactical role. In no land battle I have ever engaged has air power played a decisive role. Even against single retreating units, air power is amazing incapable of inflicting losses. I've had to mod the land str/org damage taken from air attack one hundred fold before a noticeable effect can be produced which justifies building ground support air units.

 

[unmerged(309587)]

I am more concerned about the incapacity of air power in a tactical role. In no land battle I have ever engaged has air power played a decisive role. Even against single retreating units, air power is amazing incapable of inflicting losses. I've had to mod the land str/org damage taken from air attack one hundred fold before a noticeable effect can be produced which justifies building ground support air units.

I just can't believe that is necessary. Did you research the right techs improving Ground Attack efficiency? Are your planes the latest model? Are you sending the appropriate number of planes? (I.E. Not sending 1 Stuka wing for a stack of 50 divisions?) You need to use Interdiction and Ground Attack together. Retreating units with no Org left get decimated by CAS and TAC in my games. It seems like we are playing different games.

 

[unmerged(207446)]

I'm still playing with rev. 4 I think, but unless it has been changed, that is precisely the effect I am getting. I've tried using air power in a comparable way to DD, so I know what I am doing, unless there is a fundamental change in air mechanics which forces one to use it differently in IC. I am using the AoD version, so I am not sure if that accounts for the difference. In AoD/IC, Air power is still effective against ships, but totally useless against ground units. I have sent stacks of 8 bombers against a single retreating unit, with barely noticeable "decimation" ensuing. Which just begs the question: why build 8 bombers when you can build 40 units of infantry instead?

 

[unmerged(309587)]

I'm still playing with rev. 4 I think, but unless it has been changed, that is precisely the effect I am getting. I've tried using air power in a comparable way to DD, so I know what I am doing, unless there is a fundamental change in air mechanics which forces one to use it differently in IC. I am using the AoD version, so I am not sure if that accounts for the difference. In AoD/IC, Air power is still effective against ships, but totally useless against ground units. I have sent stacks of 8 bombers against a single retreating unit, with barely noticeable "decimation" ensuing. Which just begs the question: why build 8 bombers when you can build 40 units of infantry instead?

I am playing DH/IC Rev 7 so that must be it.