Air Doctrine Comparison Chart

[Kryndude]

​	​	Strategic Destruction​	Battlefield Support​	Operational Integrity​
Air Related​	Air Superiority​	30%​	30%​	15%​
​	Air Superiority Mission Efficiency​	20%​	15%​	20%​
​	Fighter Detection​	10%​	15%​	20%​
​	Fighter/Heavy Fighter Agility​	10%​	​	10%​
​	Escort Efficiency​	25%​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Land/Navy Related​	Ground Support​	10%​	40%​	10%​
​	Air Support Mission Efficiency​	​	40%​	15%​
​	Naval Mission Efficiency​	15%​	10%​	10%​
​	CAS agility​	​	20%​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Bombing Related​	Strategic Bombing​	50%​	15%​	​
​	TAC Strategic Bombing​	​	10%​	20%​
​	Strategic Bombing Visibility​	​	​	-50%​
​	Bomber Defense​	25%​	​	20%​
​	Interception Detection​	10%​	15%​	20%​
​	Interception Mission Efficiency​	​	​	20%​
​	​	​	​	​
Miscellaneous​	Ace Generation Chance​	​	​	20%​
​	Air Wing Mission Experience Gain​	5%​	10%​	5%​
​	Air Wing Training Experience Gain​	​	​	20%​
​	Skippable Bombing Tech​	2 out of 12​	3 out of 12​	2 out of 12​

For winning air: OI
For winning land: BS
Air/land middle ground: SD
For bombing: SD

*Air superiority should be under Land/Navy Related

Anyone know what Escort Efficiency does exactly? It says in the tooltip: Improved tactics for planes on air superiority resulting in increased ability in dogfights. I assume this means it helps with air superiority mission since there is no longer escort mission?
>> Escort Efficiency currently has no effect on the game.

 

[Cavalry]

Anyone know what Escort Efficiency does exactly? It says in the tooltip: Improved tactics for planes on air superiority resulting in increased ability in dogfights. I assume this means it helps with air superiority mission since there is no longer escort mission?

Some said it doesn't work. No effect. There is no escort mission but the coders can use it in air superiority mission with CAS/bomber presenting, if they want.

 

[Emren]

Here and there, you can find remnants of game features that were disbanded duribg development. The Air Escort mission, I believe, is one such feature.

Another is the Convoy Defense Doctrine, which doesn’t exist in game - but as South Africa, you can choose a focus that will give you a boost for that Doctrine tree.

Shameless plug: I’ve suggested an overhaul for the air doctrines a while ago - link in my signature.

 

[bitmode]

Is this any different from the table in the wiki? https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_doctrine#Table_comparison

 

[Kryndude]

Is this any different from the table in the wiki? https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_doctrine#Table_comparison

Huh, I don't think I would've made the chart if I knew such section existed in the wiki. But reorganizing stats according to function does help easily identify the strength of each doctrine imo. Wiki's mostly correct except for OI's TAC strategic bombing which is 20% not 10% (fixed now). Also, it doesn't list experience gain stats (only checked SD R&R and BS L).

 

[Kryndude]

Some said it doesn't work. No effect. There is no escort mission but the coders can use it in air superiority mission with CAS/bomber presenting, if they want.

That makes OI on par with SD in air combat, although SD utilizes the advantage better once it secures air superiority and has much better bombing modifiers. OI needs a buff.

Here and there, you can find remnants of game features that were disbanded duribg development. The Air Escort mission, I believe, is one such feature.

Another is the Convoy Defense Doctrine, which doesn’t exist in game - but as South Africa, you can choose a focus that will give you a boost for that Doctrine tree.

Shameless plug: I’ve suggested an overhaul for the air doctrines a while ago - link in my signature.

I believe Italy also have Convoy doctrine related NF. I think it boosted convoy escort doctrines that all three remaining naval doctrines have but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[bitmode]

OI needs a buff.

IIRC @Secret Master prefers OI. I'm curious why!

 

[mursolini]

By looking at this, is the only advantage of ground support doctrine, the larger attack bonus your troops get from CAS?

 

[Kryndude]

By looking at this, is the only advantage of ground support doctrine, the larger attack bonus your troops get from CAS?

Yes, but the bonus is huge. It also gives you a whopping 40% mission efficiency. I think it's the go-to doctrine for singleplayer. Being able to skip 3 techs is also nice.

 

[Fulmen]

Anyone know what Escort Efficiency does exactly?

Supposedly it boosts the effectiveness of fighters when they are flying AS in a zone with friendly bombers. I remember in 2016-17 people in MP were abusing it to absolutely destroy the enemy, even with inferior odds in fighters, but it got nerfed in some fashion.

 

[Black_Shade]

Here and there, you can find remnants of game features that were disbanded duribg development. The Air Escort mission, I believe, is one such feature.

Another is the Convoy Defense Doctrine, which doesn’t exist in game - but as South Africa, you can choose a focus that will give you a boost for that Doctrine tree.

Shameless plug: I’ve suggested an overhaul for the air doctrines a while ago - link in my signature.

The convoy defense doctrines exist, they are generic doctrines that exist in all 3 trees. It's the ones that boost sub detection, destroyer organization, etc.

 

[mursolini]

Yes, but the bonus is huge. It also gives you a whopping 40% mission efficiency. I think it's the go-to doctrine for singleplayer. Being able to skip 3 techs is also nice.

Just how big is this bonus is, in reality of the game?

Isn't one of those techs actually useful and should be researched?

 

[Cavalry]

From tooltips it is hard to say if it help Ground attack!

 

[Kryndude]

Just how big is this bonus is, in reality of the game?

Isn't one of those techs actually useful and should be researched?

You know, that's actually a good question. I did some digging and it's all the more unclear.


Wiki: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_missions, https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_battle

Close air support, also known as ground support, is the use of aircraft to assist troops in land combat. Wings with this mission will participate in land combat throughout the strategic region. This gives an attack bonus to friendly troops and directly damages organization and strength of enemy divisions.

Air support: bonus to attack and defense (in addition to direct damage support planes do)

So, according to the wiki, close air support mission is said to do two things:

1. directly damage enemy ground troops 2. increase the attack and defense of allied ground troops.​

Now, regarding 'ground support' modifier, here's what the game tooltip says, which I take it as doing only #2.

Ground support: Having well-coordinated planes helping out in combat lets your troops fight better

But then if you search forum threads, you can read comments claiming that it does #1.

Ground Support - Improves damage your planes do when they engage in active ground combat.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/air-support-vs-ground-support.953104/post-21498834

This is unrelated, but I've found this discrepancy on the same wiki page

The mission efficiency of a wing influences what percentage of its planes can actually carry out the assigned missions.
Air superiority mission efficiency bonuses increase the attack, defense and agility of the wing.
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_missions

So, what does mission efficiency do? Former? Latter? Both?



In conclusion, I have no idea. Paradox, seriously, explain your stuff.

But then, if we go back to the topic and compare SD vs BS, BS also has 30% air superiority (which is probably the most important stat you can get from air doctrine) so I'm still quite certain that in SP, BS is the way to go, unless you're playing a minor and expect to have a hard time gaining air superiority.

 

[myzael]

IIRC @Secret Master prefers OI. I'm curious why!

I think it's due to IHMP mod that we use for MP that actually gives 20% agility in OI (15% in BS and SD). There's not that much reason to use OI over SD in vanilla IMO.

 

[Alpha2518]

​	​	Strategic Destruction​	Battlefield Support​	Operational Integrity​
Air Related​	Air Superiority​	30%​	30%​	15%​
​	Air Superiority Mission Efficiency​	20%​	15%​	20%​
​	Fighter Detection​	10%​	15%​	20%​
​	Fighter/Heavy Fighter Agility​	10%​	​	10%​
​	Escort Efficiency​	25%​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Land/Navy Related​	Ground Support​	10%​	40%​	10%​
​	Air Support Mission Efficiency​	​	40%​	15%​
​	Naval Mission Efficiency​	15%​	10%​	10%​
​	CAS agility​	​	20%​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Bombing Related​	Strategic Bombing​	50%​	15%​	​
​	TAC Strategic Bombing​	​	10%​	20%​
​	Strategic Bombing Visibility​	​	​	-50%​
​	Bomber Defense​	25%​	​	20%​
​	Interception Detection​	10%​	15%​	20%​
​	Interception Mission Efficiency​	​	​	20%​
​	​	​	​	​
Miscellaneous​	Ace Generation Chance​	​	​	20%​
​	Air Wing Mission Experience Gain​	5%​	10%​	5%​
​	Air Wing Training Experience Gain​	​	​	20%​
​	Skippable Bombing Tech​	1 out of 12​	3 out of 12​	2 out of 12​

For winning air: SD
For winning land: BS
For bombing: SD

Anyone know what Escort Efficiency does exactly? It says in the tooltip: Improved tactics for planes on air superiority resulting in increased ability in dogfights. I assume this means it helps with air superiority mission since there is no longer escort mission?

I must say that for winning in the air Strategic Destruction is the wrong choice and I can say this from experiance. I've had a smaller air force and used Opertational Integrity and would be winning battles with kill to loss rations of 3:1 while being outnumbered. If odds were equal this would be maintained but it would also go up sometimes to 4:1or 5:1. The reason for this is the increased fighter detection which means it's easier for my aircraft to find enemy aircraft and engage them on favorable terms. That doctrine is also designed to preserve an air force with an assumption that you will be on the backfoot in the air war, which ironically makes it the best for winning the air war.

 

[Kryndude]

I must say that for winning in the air Strategic Destruction is the wrong choice and I can say this from experiance. I've had a smaller air force and used Opertational Integrity and would be winning battles with kill to loss rations of 3:1 while being outnumbered. If odds were equal this would be maintained but it would also go up sometimes to 4:1or 5:1. The reason for this is the increased fighter detection which means it's easier for my aircraft to find enemy aircraft and engage them on favorable terms. That doctrine is also designed to preserve an air force with an assumption that you will be on the backfoot in the air war, which ironically makes it the best for winning the air war.

As a matter of fact, I did wonder what the benefit of fighter detection is if you fight on equal terms anyways. Do you know the specifics of how the initiator gains advantage over its target, like how much bonus it receives?

edit: I think I found it. It says in the wiki, "at most three times as many own planes can attack as enemies are visible, so good detection is important to fully utilize available air wings, especially when the enemy has fewer planes." https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_combat

 

[myzael]

As a matter of fact, I did wonder what the benefit of fighter detection is if you fight on equal terms anyways. Do you know the specifics of how the initiator gains advantage over its target, like how much bonus it receives?

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/User:Bitmode/Example
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Air_combat

 

[Cavalry]

I must say that for winning in the air Strategic Destruction is the wrong choice and I can say this from experiance. I've had a smaller air force and used Opertational Integrity and would be winning battles with kill to loss rations of 3:1 while being outnumbered. If odds were equal this would be maintained but it would also go up sometimes to 4:1or 5:1. The reason for this is the increased fighter detection which means it's easier for my aircraft to find enemy aircraft and engage them on favorable terms. That doctrine is also designed to preserve an air force with an assumption that you will be on the backfoot in the air war, which ironically makes it the best for winning the air war.

From my experience on higher difficult games, when enemy have thousands of planes then their detection in Europe will be always high. And wiki said when you are doing CAS bombing with figher escort then almost all your CAS and fighter will be detected. It may be different on time line but it happens probably after they research down the air doctrine tree.

 

[Alpha2518]

From my experience on higher difficult games, when enemy have thousands of planes then their detection in Europe will be always high. And wiki said when you are doing CAS bombing with figher escort then almost all your CAS and fighter will be detected. It may be different on time line but it happens probably after they research down the air doctrine tree.

Maybe. But this is my experience in running games with my group of friends. It's a great early bonus and it works great with the 20% boost to air superiority efficiency.