Air ace life spans

[parkerg12]

Also have to consider a lot of pilots where able to ditch out of there planes when they where shot down and be able to survive. so just because an ace pilot is shot down this doesn't mean that is all over there should be a percentage (maybe even tech) that will correspond with a successful ditch and recovery.

 

[Corner79]

Completely true, I'm only asking for a small adjustment to their chances of making it though a battle. I like the idea of choosing what to do with them and risk loosing them in combat.

I like the idea of having more to do with them too, but I hope this gets expanded either in DLC or mods. Like for example it would be great if you could make them air commanders. I understand this is something not in the game for air wings yet, but I am hoping it is because they are planning a DLC for it. I want to use my Spaatz, Doolittle and Lemay to wreck havoc on the Axis with my strategic bombings!

 

[Loke]

Calculating the "best" pilots be the amount of planes they shot down is somewhat misleading, as it was easier for a pilot on the Eastern front to shoot down 100 planes than on the Western. Evidenced by the huge amount of German aces who are dead on that list, especially compared to other countries.

Ok.
How do you meassure the "best" pilots? (If they are dead or not?)
Why was it easier to become top ace on the eastern front?
Seems that the top +200 aces/pilots came from the Axis and most from Germany, why?

 

[ringhloth]

Ok.
How do you meassure the "best" pilots? (If they are dead or not?)
Why was it easier to become top ace on the eastern front?
Seems that the top 200 aces/pilots came from the Axis and most from Germany, why?

You would probably compare their abilities (not just planes shot down, but the contribution to the overall success of the mission; admittedly, these stats probably aren't available and planes shot down are close enough) to a pilot who flew for a similar amount of time against similar enemies in a similar role in a similar plane, and then you make somewhat arbitrary decisions based on the results. Similar to sports, really.

 

[Loke]

That will never happen, even in sports, people/teams competing in a 100% even balance.
Every nation(persons doing sport) had/have its own way of doing things like training, tactics and the use of different aircraft.

I think this list is astonishing because I had no idea that the Axis aces had so outstanding amount of air victories compared to the allies.

The WWII top ace from either USA, Britain or Russia would not make it into the WWII top 200 aces list .

 

[ringhloth]

That will never happen, even in sports, people/teams competing in a 100% even balance.
Every nation(persons doing sport) had/have its own way of doing things like training, tactics and the use of different aircraft.

I think this list is astonishing because I had no idea that the Axis aces had so outstanding amount of air victories compared to the allies.

The WWII top ace from either USA, Britain or Russia would not make it into the WWII top 200 aces list .

You don't follow sports statistics enough if you don't think these things exist

However, that's only because the amount of data we have on various athletes is unprecedented in any other field.

 

[Loke]

You don't follow sports statistics enough if you don't think these things exist

However, that's only because the amount of data we have on various athletes is unprecedented in any other field.

Cant really say I spend much time studying sport statistics, It really doesnt matter anyway. Fact still stands, Axis fighter aces had ALOT higher amount of wins than the Allied dito.

Top Axis/German ace, Eric Hartman 352 aerial victories.
-A couple of hundred Axis aces before first Allied pilot.

Top Allied/Russian ace, Ivan Kozhedub witt 66 aerial victories.

 

[Loke]

If I remember correct, to become an ace you would have to shoot down a certain amount of planes.
Because of the huge success on the eastern front those criteria changed for the Luftwaffe.

Anyone with the numbers/criteria for shot down aircraft to become an ace?

 

[linen]

Can CAS pilots become ace?

Hans-Ulrich Rudel (2 July 1916 – 18 December 1982) was a German Luftwaffemilitary aviator during World War II, a ground-attack pilot credited with the destruction of 519 tanks, as well as a number of ships. He also claimed 9 aerial victories, and the destruction of more than 800 vehicles of all types, over 150 artillery, anti-tank andanti-aircraft positions, 4 armored trains, and numerous bridges and supply lines.[Note 1]He flew 2,530 ground-attack missions all over the Eastern Front, usually flying theJunkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bomber, and 430 missions flying the Focke-Wulf Fw 190.

The ships by the way were the Soviet Battleship Marat which he dropped a 1000kg bomb down the smock stack. Also put a couple of cruisers out of action... Man was a one man army. Also shot down 9 times and had to escape from behind enemy lines.

 

[Number 7]

Can CAS pilots become ace?

The ships by the way were the Soviet Battleship Marat which he dropped a 1000kg bomb down the smock stack. Also put a couple of cruisers out of action... Man was a one man army. Also shot down 9 times and had to escape from behind enemy lines.

the only thing i don't trust about those crazy numbers is that the luftwaffe (and the wehrmacht in general) was incredibly optimistic when reporting their kill counts to say the least... such as reporting more kills than the enemy even had in the area

 

[linen]

the only thing i don't trust about those crazy numbers is that the luftwaffe (and the wehrmacht in general) was incredibly optimistic when reporting their kill counts to say the least... such as reporting more kills than the enemy even had in the area

It's all pretty well documented, hell, Stalin had a bounty on his head, the United States went after his opinion for the design of the A-10, the man is full of shrapnel. Some of it might be overstated but what isn't is the totality of what he did.

Still an unrepentant Nazi until his death too.

 

[BrotherSurplice]

I'd like for there to be an option to use your aces to train your recruits, like the Allies did historically. It could give your new air wings a small bonus to starting experience.

 

[panzerzombie]

I'd like for there to be an option to use your aces to train your recruits, like the Allies did historically. It could give your new air wings a small bonus to starting experience.

Sadly there is no aircrew experience whatsoever and such ( I hope for a dlc at least, I´m disappointed with this aspect ).

If you choose - NF perhaps - this, you should get a hefty survival bonus ( while decreasing the tactical boni the air unit receives and a daily bonus to AirCombatExperience ( I assume they talk in this scenario to the aircraft designers and help to improve the birds ).

 

[Sic Domine]

the only thing i don't trust about those crazy numbers is that the luftwaffe (and the wehrmacht in general) was incredibly optimistic when reporting their kill counts to say the least... such as reporting more kills than the enemy even had in the area

Actually, it was the other way around. The German counting was much less overachieving than that of alot of other Nations. The Germans, on average, underestimated hostile losses by about 15%, compared to the Soviet Union, who overestimated German losses by an average of 50%.
According to the Soviet statistics, the Germans lost more Panthers at Kursk than they even produced, and lost more men on the Eastern front in WWII than they lost on all fronts in WWII and WWI combined.

 

[Orlunu]

Seems that the top +200 aces/pilots came from the Axis and most from Germany, why?

Doctrine. Axis air forces mostly focused on pure air superiority and dogfighting, Allies mostly went with ground pounding and formation tactics. A few other quirks helped, such as the Germans counting a heavy bomber as a kind of "multi-kill", which could all be awarded to one pilot or split between several who contributed.

 

[amalric de g.]

Only 44 off the german aces (Top 200) where shot down and died in their planes. They trained the noobs, in their squadrons and not back in the flying schools, the most famous example is Erich Hartmann, who joined the JG 52 in 1942 as a noob.
Thats only a different aproach than the allies did, thats all. The germans didn´t had the luxury to rotate skilled pilots out.

 

[amalric de g.]

Doctrine. Axis air forces mostly focused on pure air superiority and dogfighting, Allies mostly went with ground pounding and formation tactics. A few other quirks helped, such as the Germans counting a heavy bomber as a kind of "multi-kill", which could all be awarded to one pilot or split between several who contributed.

Germans credited a shared victory to only one pilot, while the French credited full victory to all participants. British, Finnish and US air forces credited fractional shares of aerial victories, resulting in fractions, such as 11½, which might be for example 10 aircraft and three shares with the second pilot. Some U.S. commands also credited aircraft destroyed on the ground. The Soviets counted only solo kills, while group kills were counted separately, as did the Japanese. Probable kills are usually left out of the list.

 

[Loke]

Doctrine. Axis air forces mostly focused on pure air superiority and dogfighting, Allies mostly went with ground pounding and formation tactics. A few other quirks helped, such as the Germans counting a heavy bomber as a kind of "multi-kill", which could all be awarded to one pilot or split between several who contributed.

Here it says that - "Luftwaffe continued the tradition of "One Pilot, One Kill".

 

[mursolini]

The question people seem to be missing when they tell about Allied rotation of aces to training schools while Germans didn`t, is "Whom exactly did train German pilots anyway?"

Had they any need to rotate skilled pilots to do the job of instructors? Allied training programs were massive, much larger than German, and Germany was fighting air war since basically battle of Spain. Why can`t we assume Germany simply could fill out instructor positions with highly skilled veteran pilots without taking best current pilots from front, while allies couldn`t due to sizes of pools of needed pilots vs available.

 

[jalapen0]

Pretty simple why German pilots had more aces with massive amounts of kills. Now I'm just using common sense. I have like zero knowledge of this subject so take me with a grain of salt.

Germany fought and took down how many 2nd rate airforces before the majors got really involved AND got airforces up to speed? Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, perhaps France could be included. Then the RAF was practically destroyed. Not all of them but many of these guys were shooting fish in a barrel. The Soviet airforce was 2nd rate at the start of the invasion as well. Nobody was ready for the onslaught. The German airforce was ready, the enemies of Germany were not.

Now I don't know for sure, but I bet by the time Stalingrad was happening, German kills weren't happening nearly as often.