AI Winning
- Thread starter Gaussia
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I'm in super rage because 1 guy said the AI is dump. I know it's true and my mind will blow up soon.
Wiz already made a full DD about the AI but I believe the guy who said the AI in EU4 is easy and stellaris could be the same!
Now do you understand my rage?
RAGE!
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The biggest problem I plan to see with AI is wormhole travel. The AI isn't necessarily dumb. It's just really easy to abuse the game in EU4. You can play as Venice and your biggest threat is obviously Austria. But all's you have to do is then ally France and/or the Commonwealth and then spend a few years destroying Austria. Then you slowly take over every small country in Italy without anyone caring as long as you wait for the aggressive expansion to wear off. And you rinse and repeat until you win the game.
The only really dumb things AI do that make it far easier is when France leaves their entire army in Africa as you are blowing them up as Spain. But other than that it's just abusing alliances and always being able to fight on your terms makes the game incredibly easy. And any attempt to balance it just seems gamey like +100 thousand rebels spawning.
The only really dumb things AI do that make it far easier is when France leaves their entire army in Africa as you are blowing them up as Spain. But other than that it's just abusing alliances and always being able to fight on your terms makes the game incredibly easy. And any attempt to balance it just seems gamey like +100 thousand rebels spawning.
The problem is not paradox games being too easy. They most certainly are not. The problem is that no game is going to still be difficult after you have played several thousand hours of it. So hope rather that it stays interesting. Thats how they get you to play several thousand hours of it in the first place.
Caught myself going way off topic talking about the ways ck2 has changed over the years, to reign it in and condense it a bit, i'll just say that lots of the things they introduce/remove from the game have been things that people deemed abusable mechanics exploits or areas that were too easy etc (banishment nerfed into uselessness, blobbing too easy - aggresive expansion coalitions etc). Despite poeple clamouring that it's too easy etc etc, they also go berserk when you make it more difficult.
Conclave was not well recieved (judging by reactions on the forums anway) because it made the game more difficult (although I imagine people wouldn't admit that's why).
Personally I found it really fun. Hadn't had that much fun with internal discord in any of my game since way back when, before I knew how to game the system.
TL: DR
Stellaris will most likely start off reasonably challenging, as you get better you can start giving more AI advanced starts, dlcs will add new mechanics and challenge and if you're dumping so much time into the game that you know every single system inside out then obviously it's going to be easy enough to beat the AI most of the time, maybe then you should try out some multiplayer.
Caught myself going way off topic talking about the ways ck2 has changed over the years, to reign it in and condense it a bit, i'll just say that lots of the things they introduce/remove from the game have been things that people deemed abusable mechanics exploits or areas that were too easy etc (banishment nerfed into uselessness, blobbing too easy - aggresive expansion coalitions etc). Despite poeple clamouring that it's too easy etc etc, they also go berserk when you make it more difficult.
Conclave was not well recieved (judging by reactions on the forums anway) because it made the game more difficult (although I imagine people wouldn't admit that's why).
Personally I found it really fun. Hadn't had that much fun with internal discord in any of my game since way back when, before I knew how to game the system.
TL: DR
Stellaris will most likely start off reasonably challenging, as you get better you can start giving more AI advanced starts, dlcs will add new mechanics and challenge and if you're dumping so much time into the game that you know every single system inside out then obviously it's going to be easy enough to beat the AI most of the time, maybe then you should try out some multiplayer.
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Brian's post above brought up good points! It also seems like multiple people in this thread have expressed concern with the game ending. I think that could be addressed by giving the option to continue a single-player game even after the player or AI meets one of the victory conditions. Have we heard if that's possible or not yet?
One impressive thing about Stellaris is the support for large galaxies with numerous AI players. On top of that, I believe Wiz had reported the AI development was going well and that AI players didn't even have to resort the the kind of "cheating" that's so common in the 4X genre. However, we've also heard that it's possible to be boxed into one section of the galaxy particularly in Ring galaxies. One concern if the AI can achieve victories is an AI on the other side of the universe that the player may not have any real way to interact with or potentially even have met yet achieving some victory and ending the game.
I do agree with Gaussia that the AI should not be able to end the game for the player. However, it would be interesting to see the AI still act like a human player and try to achieve goals, potentially including victory conditions. It just seems like allowing the player to continue regardless might be preferable considering the other perspectives expressed so far in this thread.
One impressive thing about Stellaris is the support for large galaxies with numerous AI players. On top of that, I believe Wiz had reported the AI development was going well and that AI players didn't even have to resort the the kind of "cheating" that's so common in the 4X genre. However, we've also heard that it's possible to be boxed into one section of the galaxy particularly in Ring galaxies. One concern if the AI can achieve victories is an AI on the other side of the universe that the player may not have any real way to interact with or potentially even have met yet achieving some victory and ending the game.
I do agree with Gaussia that the AI should not be able to end the game for the player. However, it would be interesting to see the AI still act like a human player and try to achieve goals, potentially including victory conditions. It just seems like allowing the player to continue regardless might be preferable considering the other perspectives expressed so far in this thread.
AI winning will be a soft limit. As far as I know there is no hard limit to the game.
I can't remember what thread it was in but I am quite certain that a dev confirmed that you can continue on after victories have been achieved. I'd imagine that goes regardless of whether player or AI achieves the victory. It's just because there's no end time, so it doesn't just trail off into nothing. I'd say by the time you actually get one of the victory conditions, the game will have been long since won.