In GC the Ottoman Empire is extremely weak....of course this is good for Hungary 
but where is the realism ?
but where is the realism ?-
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They have to annex so many small nations that their BB goes real high by the time they reach even their 1492 start condition. That and they never seem to take out the Mamelukes very well. Hungary or Austria having inherited Hungary is too strong as well. They are not in a good position. Though they are a lot better than they were in 1.01, the Byzantines are annexed nearly always.
No.Problem is that Turkey is too weak...if Turkey would be string like Austria it would surely make Austria seem weaker beacouse of wars between them...
The problem is to guide them the right way without making them so powerful that they become too easy to play if you pick them. Events? Not a good idea, for it would force their hand too much. The Turkish AI needs to be smarter about when to wage war and against whom.
Also, when the Turks are NOT doing well, their neighbors never pounce on them.
E.g., in my current game, as Venice, I wanted to beat them up a bit before they got to be a menace, so I did, with a bunch of allies. Between us all, they lost all their European provinces but Thrace, and I also seized Smyrna and Anatolia.
Their empire was broken, split in two pieces, without an army, etc. Seems like their neighbors would have pounced and taken the now-cut-off, undefended provinces in Asia Minor. But nothing. The Turks have been sitting there unmolested for fifty years.
Anyone else noticed something like this?
Are all the minors in the area programmed to "fear" the Turk regardless of circumstances?
E.g., in my current game, as Venice, I wanted to beat them up a bit before they got to be a menace, so I did, with a bunch of allies. Between us all, they lost all their European provinces but Thrace, and I also seized Smyrna and Anatolia.
Their empire was broken, split in two pieces, without an army, etc. Seems like their neighbors would have pounced and taken the now-cut-off, undefended provinces in Asia Minor. But nothing. The Turks have been sitting there unmolested for fifty years.
Anyone else noticed something like this?
Are all the minors in the area programmed to "fear" the Turk regardless of circumstances?
I don't know, I think Hungary is too strong; they usually end up annexing some balkan minors before the Turks do, and that makes them even stronger. Apparently there will be some changes to Hungary in 1.03, or so I've heard.
That's true. I usually see them annex the Transylvania province. However, their tech upgrades are really, really slow. I have often been 10 land techs ahead of them early in the game.
I'd still say that Turkey is too weak ...Hungary had some great leaders in the time. I think that events should make the Ottoman Empire grow fast enough AND make Turkey attack Hungary at an exact date
Tell me about it ....
Ye and that hould be a guarantee of a series of defeats against the turks
Ye and that hould be a guarantee of a series of defeats against the turks
Don´t think the war command works in the events. And many would protest this interference in the game.
yes but remember Hungary had it's greatest leaders and rulers in that era!! Remeber that Matthias Corvinus annexed even Wien from Habsburgs!!! (returned in 1492
)
I've never seen Turkey make Hungary even sweat. In fact, from the moment Turkey bumps up against Hungary (usually pretty quickly, since Hungary eats Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Moldavia, Siebenburgen, and Wallachia unless Venice gets to some of them first), Turkey is thrown on the defensive and forced back.
I don't know why. Hungary seems to maintain very large armies, like most of Europe. Turkey seems to maintain very small armies, like ROTW. Of course, that's just my informal observation.
The war command works. I don't see how it would help reduce Hungary to the rump status it had when it was joined to Austria, though. (Also, the BB hit from inheriting Hungary can hurt Austria pretty bad, I've found.)
driftwood
I don't know why. Hungary seems to maintain very large armies, like most of Europe. Turkey seems to maintain very small armies, like ROTW. Of course, that's just my informal observation.
The war command works. I don't see how it would help reduce Hungary to the rump status it had when it was joined to Austria, though. (Also, the BB hit from inheriting Hungary can hurt Austria pretty bad, I've found.)
driftwood
I don't think that Turkey is too weak, it is Hungary & Austria are too strong. It is pretty standard that Hungary will take Transylvania, Wallachia, Moldovia, & Serbia while the Turks take all of Asia Minor and the portions of the Balkans that Hungary and Venice leave. Without exception, when Turkey clashes with Hungary/Austria along the Danube it is the Turks that lose. The Siege of Vienna is something I've never seen in EU1 or EU2. The only people who need to really worry about the Turks are their Muslim brethern - they never have posed a threat to Catholic Europe (though they did take Cyrpus in 1426 in current game - only Catholic nation they have been able to defeat).
Yeah I have to agree. Hungary does very well in my games although in my last one the turks almost managed to live up to history. This is not the norm however.
Perhaps banging our heads over this is all pointless. If we edit every nation to death so it follows its historical patterns exactly then we've taken the fun out of the game. Revel in the revisionist history for once; perhaps you'll sprout an imagination.
hrmm.
Well, you don't want the historical outcome to occur everytime. However, I think that in general you want the mean outcome to be centered around the historical events. What makes the alternate histories interesting is their twist on what happened. If the alternate history is extremely different from what actually happened it is not very interesting -- why have the historical relevance at all? Europa-Universalis is not a fantasy game. I think you maximize the 'intriguing!' factor when you have subtle variations of history. Of course, one persons definition of Subtle could have Turkey conquering all of Central Europe. Another could be that Turkey manages to take out Austria but then gets stopped cold. Or maybe they just never quite get Constantinople. All I am trying to say is that the alternate history is most interesting in a firm historical context -- certainly its more within the spirit of the EU design.
Well, you don't want the historical outcome to occur everytime. However, I think that in general you want the mean outcome to be centered around the historical events. What makes the alternate histories interesting is their twist on what happened. If the alternate history is extremely different from what actually happened it is not very interesting -- why have the historical relevance at all? Europa-Universalis is not a fantasy game. I think you maximize the 'intriguing!' factor when you have subtle variations of history. Of course, one persons definition of Subtle could have Turkey conquering all of Central Europe. Another could be that Turkey manages to take out Austria but then gets stopped cold. Or maybe they just never quite get Constantinople. All I am trying to say is that the alternate history is most interesting in a firm historical context -- certainly its more within the spirit of the EU design.
Ive seen the Turks totaly demolish the Hungarians. Infact Hungary was left with three provinces and the Turks were surroinding them like a pincer...ofcourse then internal rebelion totaly destroyed the Turks for some reason but hey.....atleast they almost lived up to hteir old ways.
Originally posted by BiB
Hungary was even stronger in the early beta, quite a monster they were
Well IIRC Hungary was quite a powerful nation at the time. Perhaps it´s their aggressiveness that should be lowered?? The thing that makes the monstrous is their ability to conquer the small nations in the balkans.
I agree with Idiotboy, maybe making Hungary less agressive would work. I can also seeing raising her relations to the Balkans powers at the start to very friendly status, so as to further discourage wars. But I dont know how historical it would be to have them friendly with the Balkan minors.