AI Trade irrational v1.3.3 (2dd2)

[Skalman500]

This problem was mentioned in the Beta version and I just tried the new patch out several times as it was released. The AI chooses it's trade partners without good rational here, despite having better Trade Influence with other nations, that have plenty of resources for export. This is from a Hands-Off game, just cruising around and observing what the AI is doing:
I chose Sweden for this as it is a good example. They used to get 1-4 factories from trade during the years 1936-1939. Now they will get 15 factories in 1937...... This is just unsustainable, and the game gets pretty skewed. As this happens to several other nations (France does not get the steel export), it upsets the balance of the game.

I only used the colored buttons mod at times TfV, and I have done the same test for Vanilla game again and again with the same result.

 

[Shakar]

Its not trade influence related - its relation related issue - atleast should be.. Trade influence is (well should be - lol - since this is not working as intented) only affecting your share if there are more exports then resources.

 

[bitmode]

Countries buying more from Sweden doesn't strike me as very irrational. Could you give a more concrete example which countries should obviously prefer France over Sweden? Or do you think the AI should generally spread out the trade for balancing? Also the resident historical-resources-expert might correct me, but wasn't Swedish iron ore actually very sought after at the time?

@billcorr

 

[Shakar]

Countries buying more from Sweden doesn't strike me as very irrational. Could you give a more concrete example which countries should obviously prefer France over Sweden? Or do you think the AI should generally spread out the trade for balancing? Also the resident historical-resources-expert might correct me, but wasn't Swedish iron ore actually very sought after at the time?

@billcorr

I'll post my opinion. Nation should trade with their best related country. If it has resources in adequate quantity of course. Otherwise with their 2nd best related country an so on. If there are two exporting nations with the same relation to the importer, AI should pick the cheaper trade (less or even none convoys)
Trade influence purpose is to provide fair cut if there are more demands for export then can be fullfiled. It's bugged now hoping for fix.

 

[Skalman500]

My complaint above actually refers to some of the changes that have occurred in the new 1.3.3 patch, not the problem specifically against trading with Sweden, rather against the rational of the system, Paradox specifically stated that the AI would try to prefer Land to Sea routes, and if it did choose a Sea route it would pick the route with as few Sea provinces as possible.

Here is my take on it:

Realism, yes Sweden was a very important source of iron ore (only high grade in Europe), but so was France (largest volume by far in Europe). France mined about 2.7 times as much and most countries thus had imports from France.

Game-play wise the complaint is valid. Why should the Netherlands for ex. choose Sweden before France or Belgium? They both have enough Steel for the Netherlands, they are direct neighbors (so closer) with good relations and most importantly, there is a land route. So the transports are not vulnerable to interdictions.

If the land routes were not able to deliver Steel for ex. and the Netherlands had to use the Sea route, Britain would still be the preferred choice. Britain has a large amount of Steel and is very close. To get to the Swedish route you must travel much farther, cross more Sea provinces as well as the Danish Straits, which makes trade even more vulnerable. Note that I have not arbitrarily picked this criteria, it is Paradox that has structured the game this way, to build up a more rational Trade choice for the AI.

To summarize should Sweden export Steel, yes of course! But the trade of the other nations must be rational to their own self interest as the game was designed to do it (therefore the bug report, because it currently doesn't). This way the trade will spread out and the balance will be more real.

And yes Shakar, you are right about the trade influence, it only determines the share of the resources, but it as you say it doesn't seem to work either.

 

[Shakar]

So maybe there should be some hidden bonus to relations if nation has land route to exporter.
Example: Netherlands wants steel. Relations Swe +80 France+65 ( hidden bonus +20 for Land route) so they would import from France then...

 

[Skalman500]

yes something like that. I'm not sure how the AI chooses trade at the moment but there should be modifiers which take the type of transport and distance into account.

 

[Shakar]

yes something like that. I'm not sure how the AI chooses trade at the moment but there should be modifiers which take the type of transport and distance into account.

I've changed value in 00_defines.lua .... BASE_LAND_TRADE_RANGE = 200 (was 800) it is more of a fun now.

Small nations prefer trading from their continent, probably low on convoys. Also no land import from China to Austria, Italy etc.. To import Oil from Middle East convoys needed too...

 

[Skalman500]

This is pretty good, gonna give it a try immediately!

 

[Shakar]

This is pretty good, gonna give it a try immediately!

Try setting it to 141. Exactly. As Ger u will need convoys for importing from Fin/Gre/Tur/Sov etc. It is not flawless but you can TAG test yourself.

 

[bitmode]

@SteelVolt could you give us a few bullet points what the AI mainly considers for trade partner selection (or to which extent it's random)? Not asking for the secret sauce, just the rough framework

 

[Shakar]

As a fascist you have very limited possibilities. Allies ignore you even in prewar phase, Austria, Romania, Switzerland importing from East India....(mostly land transport).