AI still needs to be more opportunistic and actually DO THINGS

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Colossal_Elk

Unspecified Cervid
24 Badges
Dec 10, 2013
1.320
1.545
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
I'm Perm. I rebel on Muscovy. Muscovy has less total troops than Perm+Novgorod. Novrogod has all starting provinces, and cores on Muscovy lands, and claims on other Muscovy lands.

Muscovy sends its army.

Novgorod does nothing.

I beat one of Muscovy's armies.

Novgorod does nothing.

Like...ok. I understand not doing anything when the war starts. Why incur Muscovy's wrath? But if you're Novgorod you've got at least as much money, and even though manpower isn't as good, Muscovy is completely exhausted by a war vs Golden Horde (in which Novgorod did...you guessed it, NOTHING) and on the verge of peasant's war. Novgorod won't DOW. Won't invade. It would rather sit there and be eaten by Muscovy later.


Now I'll give Paradox some credit. On the Gandhi-to-Hitler scale of aggression, at least they're not on the bottom rung anymore, but they're kind of hanging around John Adams right now.

"War?...........Maybe, sort of, something something. Eh."

You know, in a game where the main objective is to invade things, a lot of countries sure don't like to invade things. Especially if invading things entails hurting a country that doesn't like the player. Here you are, land ripe for the taking, a chance to cripple your rival, and............nothing.

Is there any reason to invade someone who you can take things from? Exactly. Of course not.

:closedeyes:
 

Thund91

I'm probably drunk
42 Badges
Sep 12, 2010
1.110
159
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
I don't know about you, but the ai seems pretty opportunistic to me. In my Sweden ironman Denmark declared war while I was fighting Muscovy, and in my England ironman Burgundy declared war on France while I was fighting them in the HYW.

I'm guessing looking at the ledger for Muscovy would show that they weren't as exhausted as you say. If Muscovy really didn't have any manpower I'm pretty sure Novgorod would attack, unless they maybe had a "diplomatic" type ruler who didn't want to start any wars.
 

Colossal_Elk

Unspecified Cervid
24 Badges
Dec 10, 2013
1.320
1.545
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
I don't know about you, but the ai seems pretty opportunistic to me. In my Sweden ironman Denmark declared war while I was fighting Muscovy, and in my England ironman Burgundy declared war on France while I was fighting them in the HYW.

I'm guessing looking at the ledger for Muscovy would show that they weren't as exhausted as you say. If Muscovy really didn't have any manpower I'm pretty sure Novgorod would attack, unless they maybe had a "diplomatic" type ruler who didn't want to start any wars.

Muscovy's manpower is a whopping...261.

But Novgorod has a diplomat ruler.

But it doesn't take a warmonger to realize that such low manpower is an invitation to invasion.
 

StatikShocker

General
68 Badges
Sep 13, 2013
1.855
270
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
NO

those were my allies 3 seconds before this war started. I had 40,000 troops, not like I was weak. Coordinated betrayal plus austria not defending the empire...
more often I see all my neighbors swoop in on people I'm attacking. I've never seen what you describe. Novgorod is the most pacifist pushover failure of a state in the game, so that's what you get.
 

Colossal_Elk

Unspecified Cervid
24 Badges
Dec 10, 2013
1.320
1.545
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
NO

those were my allies 3 seconds before this war started. I had 40,000 troops, not like I was weak. Coordinated betrayal plus austria not defending the empire...
more often I see all my neighbors swoop in on people I'm attacking. I've never seen what you describe. Novgorod is the most pacifist pushover failure of a state in the game, so that's what you get.

That's my point. Why is Novgorod a failure? There's no "unlucky" nations (I have lucky nations turned off--ever since I did, campaigns are way less predictable). Why does AI always ignore opportunities for expansion if it can in any way, shape or form help the player? Really arbitrary design here.
 

StatikShocker

General
68 Badges
Sep 13, 2013
1.855
270
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
That's my point. Why is Novgorod a failure? There's no "unlucky" nations (I have lucky nations turned off--ever since I did, campaigns are way less predictable). Why does AI always ignore opportunities for expansion if it can in any way, shape or form help the player? Really arbitrary design here.
well novgorod borders sweden, lithuania, and muscovy. i think it fears for its life. can't you see sweden and lithuania taking advantage of novgorod invading muscovy? and then denmark and poland invading them? you don't dedicate your army to something like that when you have huge threats on your borders. Novgorod doesn't foresee its impending annexation, its an ai and I'd prefer them being rationally defensive than reactionary to the point of suicidal recklessness.
 

unmerged(773066)

Captain
1 Badges
Jul 23, 2013
305
2
  • Europa Universalis IV
That's my point. Why is Novgorod a failure? There's no "unlucky" nations (I have lucky nations turned off--ever since I did, campaigns are way less predictable). Why does AI always ignore opportunities for expansion if it can in any way, shape or form help the player? Really arbitrary design here.

I think Novogrod is generally pre-destined to fail handled by the AI, they have the smell of Albania about them. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen them succeed in EU4 in 500 hours.
 

Nidhoegger

Captain
47 Badges
Feb 23, 2014
317
143
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I think Novogrod is generally pre-destined to fail handled by the AI, they have the smell of Albania about them. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen them succeed in EU4 in 500 hours.

I have. They formed russia, while Muscovy is still around and keep waging war against them and Sweden - whom they simple can't handle.
 

Thund91

I'm probably drunk
42 Badges
Sep 12, 2010
1.110
159
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
I think Novogrod is generally pre-destined to fail handled by the AI, they have the smell of Albania about them. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen them succeed in EU4 in 500 hours.

I agree. Other nations that always seem to fail miserably - Switzerland, Genoa, and Hungary.
 

Morricane

Captain
11 Badges
Oct 3, 2013
460
87
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Rome: Vae Victis
I don't know about you, but the ai seems pretty opportunistic to me. In my Sweden ironman Denmark declared war while I was fighting Muscovy, and in my England ironman Burgundy declared war on France while I was fighting them in the HYW.

I'm guessing looking at the ledger for Muscovy would show that they weren't as exhausted as you say. If Muscovy really didn't have any manpower I'm pretty sure Novgorod would attack, unless they maybe had a "diplomatic" type ruler who didn't want to start any wars.

Same here. In my first game ever (Ironman, Hard, A.I. Bonus on) France/Hungary and Austria/Spain always have super-huge wars against half of Europe to deal with because once they fight each other, half of Europe decides it's a good idea to try and trash the losing party. Or France / Austria will DoW once one of them is in another major war. They never fight only "one" war. It's always 2-3 at once.
 

AurochsAway

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 15, 2014
4.432
697
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
I also get the feeling Novogrod just wants to die. I've seen them multiple times managing to obtain an alliance with independent Lithuania, before breaking it themselves a few months later.