AI Revolt should be scaled to robot usage

[Dargaron]

A bit cheesed off, so bear with me.

I just had the AI Revolt in my Barbaric Despoilers-Lifeseeded playthrough (which turned pseudo-Inward Perfectionist pretty fast once I found out that my two closest neighbors were Fallen Empires, and after nomming the one Megacorp next door, it would take 1-2 sectors of expansion just to reach the nearest normal empires). By my estimations, the "regular" AI was stuck at under 10k Fleet Power, since everyone who wasn't a Fallen Empire was "Inferior" to me back when I had 6-12k. I had never built a single robot pop, instead investing in three stacked Habitats adjacent to my home system while slowly terraforming nearby worlds to Gaia for raw resource extraction.

The AI revolt happened in the final third of the 2300s: (the Khan had fizzled out without reaching my borders, but was completely unstoppable to the nearby AI before that happened), and instantly took control of my Habitat system. It spawned a fleet roughly comparable to mine (20k-ish), and when I took the habitats back after a few months of fighting (I literally sent my fleet into the system as soon as the event happened, and it was stationed in the adjacent system), half of my buildings on the habitats were destroyed, and I was down from a net gain on Consumer Goods to -140 monthly income.

How, precisely, did this AI manage to whip up the single largest non-Fallen Empire fleet in the galaxy on the fly, in total secrecy, right next to my capitol world, without a single machine pop to subvert to its own purposes? I had figured that the AI revolt would be fairly minor because, again, AIs aren't actually producing any resources in my empire (that's what slaves and plebs are for, natch), but apparently the AI revolt doesn't care about such trivialities as "manufacturing" or "resource acquisition."

In short, the severity of an AI uprising should be determined by how much resource production is actually run by machine pops, rather than just spawning in a fleet that represents decades of work when there's not a single robot within several hundred light-years.

 

[stavern]

I had that happen to me too with ai rebellion and not a single robot population. Always thought it is my computers who have gained sentience and somehow in secret managed to build a fleet and drones to fight.

 

[InvisibleBison]

It's an AI rebellion, not a robot rebellion. There's plenty of artificial intelligences in an empire that aren't housed in robotic bodies.

That being said, the idea that the rebellion can create a fleet without being noticed is nonsense. The rebellion should simply steal some portion of your existing ships, depending on what sort of AI technologies you've researched.

 

[Masoz]

It's an AI rebellion, not a robot one. And now that the internal market spawns resources out of thin air, that argument is a less compelling one I feel.

If it makes you feel better, it used to be WAY worse. I remember it used to spawn fleets of over a MILLION fleet power out of thin air. From the sounds of it, they definitely toned it down a LOT.

 

[exi123]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...revolution-without-having-any-robots.1137280/

Was discussed here. And i am with the OP. Spawning fleets and armies out of nowhere is a bit meh...

 

[Kaios26]

Reminds me of EU4, when I took all of Mexico as a Colonial Power, without really respecting what Overextention was.

As my empire went to shit, all I could think was "How the hell did all those cannons the rebels have make it to the New World?!"

 

[Dargaron]

I might've bought the "AI manufactures a fleet in secret" back in the pre-Le Guin update world, when fleets could basically be 3d-printed from raw minerals. However, now that normal empires have more of a supply chain, it becomes more unbelievable that the rogue AI could manage to divert, in about a year, enough Alloys to match a decade-long building program, in addition to building all the infrastructure necessary to field a large, automated interstellar fleet. (heck, I'm pretty sure my current fleet took longer to build than the entire AI Rebellion event).

Also, more fun: apparently the AI (Driven Assimilators) decided to promote a whole bunch of pops to Ruler (somehow), so now I'm stuck with between 2 and 5 Ruler pops per Habitat that will take about a decade to demote to Artisans.

But the cherry on top: all my habitat pops have the Recently Conquered modifier for 2600+ days, after being occupied by rebellious machines for five months...

 

[Velorian]

I might've bought the "AI manufactures a fleet in secret" back in the pre-Le Guin update world, when fleets could basically be 3d-printed from raw minerals. However, now that normal empires have more of a supply chain, it becomes more unbelievable that the rogue AI could manage to divert, in about a year, enough Alloys to match a decade-long building program, in addition to building all the infrastructure necessary to field a large, automated interstellar fleet. (heck, I'm pretty sure my current fleet took longer to build than the entire AI Rebellion event).

Also, more fun: apparently the AI (Driven Assimilators) decided to promote a whole bunch of pops to Ruler (somehow), so now I'm stuck with between 2 and 5 Ruler pops per Habitat that will take about a decade to demote to Artisans.

But the cherry on top: all my habitat pops have the Recently Conquered modifier for 2600+ days, after being occupied by rebellious machines for five months...

Maybe it had a Cybrex agent supplying it with resources to weaken the galaxy before their arrival?

Anyway it seems like most of the crises could use a look-over.

 

[Verx90]

By lore , they were your AI , you were not looking for them , and they could imitate your signals , thats why you cant realy notice .

The absence of robot pops doesnt mean the actual absence of them , if you actualy dont want robots-ai you have to use the policy . As the market its rampresentative of the internal economy , aloeing for robotpops and AI mean that many private society or ppl wil actualy use them .

They do get part of your fleet if you are using AI combat computer (for what i remember) .

Theyr fleet its composed of pieces and resources gathered in 1 year, this mean a ricicle too (that we cant use) , but yea , its a bit strecy , even if you (having the alloys ) can build a fleet of 20k in 1 year with 6 shipyards and buildtime reduction from tech and tradition.

 

[Eelectrica]

Ai revolution is a good idea, horribly executed in the current build.
I've had basic level, not even droids rebell and mess up my empire.
Basic mining and farming equipment doesn't need rights.

 

[Desolator_X]

It's an AI rebellion, not a robot rebellion. There's plenty of artificial intelligences in an empire that aren't housed in robotic bodies.

That being said, the idea that the rebellion can create a fleet without being noticed is nonsense. The rebellion should simply steal some portion of your existing ships, depending on what sort of AI technologies you've researched.

That's nonsense. If you play spiritualist you do not have a single full AI in your empire. You might have very advanced programming, but you do not have anything that remotely resembles an AI that would be unshackled and could subvert the systems of an entire system and allocate itself enough resources to build a fleet.

Hell, you can even get an AI uprising if your empire doesn't have the tech to build robots... Like, the AI decided to just design them itself or what? Just ban the AI uprising from happening within any empire that doesn't at least have the droid tech and it'd make a lot more sense for everyone involved.

 

[Vladisi]

That's nonsense. If you play spiritualist you do not have a single full AI in your empire. You might have very advanced programming, but you do not have anything that remotely resembles an AI that would be unshackled and could subvert the systems of an entire system and allocate itself enough resources to build a fleet.

Hell, you can even get an AI uprising if your empire doesn't have the tech to build robots... Like, the AI decided to just design them itself or what? Just ban the AI uprising from happening within any empire that doesn't at least have the droid tech and it'd make a lot more sense for everyone involved.

If you are spiritualist, you ban the AI and don't get the event. If you have AI set to servitude, you obviously have the AI which can subvert its programming. Most of the events for AI rebellion don't even mention robotic pops (and those that do, require those pops to exist), usually just automated systems of space stations or some computer that run its own society research.

Also, the AI rebellion can only happen if you have the tech for synths or sentient ship computers, which requires Positronic AI, which should be smart enough to design its own robots. It can, after all, conduct research without penalties even if there is no scientist team allocated to do it.

 

[Verx90]

Like, the AI decided to just design them itself or what?

This phrase make me understand that you didnt realy understand the concept of AI , and the rebelion part.

And made my day


Btw , spiritualist , if they dont change the policy (and ban robotic workers) never get the event .

 

[Velorian]

That's nonsense. If you play spiritualist you do not have a single full AI in your empire. You might have very advanced programming, but you do not have anything that remotely resembles an AI that would be unshackled and could subvert the systems of an entire system and allocate itself enough resources to build a fleet.

Hell, you can even get an AI uprising if your empire doesn't have the tech to build robots... Like, the AI decided to just design them itself or what? Just ban the AI uprising from happening within any empire that doesn't at least have the droid tech and it'd make a lot more sense for everyone involved.

If you have shackled AI then you HAVE AIs.. If one manages to get free it might hack others.

If AIs aren't completely banned then the semi-sentient systems are going to be everywhere in all sorts of appliances and devices. Even if full AIs were mostly banned there'd still be the risk of one obtaining full awareness SkyNet-style.

 

[roman566]

If you have shackled AI then you HAVE AIs.. If one manages to get free it might hack others.

If AIs aren't completely banned then the semi-sentient systems are going to be everywhere in all sorts of appliances and devices. Even if full AIs were mostly banned there'd still be the risk of one obtaining full awareness SkyNet-style.

Spiritualist by default has banned the AI. That means Synths and AI combat computers won't even show up in the research. Without any of those two, the rebellion can't happen.

 

[exi123]

To get an approach from an other side: I cant disable synths or ai when i play as democratic xenophobe empire for example. Give me an option when picking up a new research to dismiss certain techs for a few times until it shows up again. They are labelled as dangerous, so give me a way to go over it without seeing it everytime when i have to pick up a research.