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Engioc

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Oh btw before we start I was playing on normal difficulty and normal combat.

At the year 1621 and until 1628 (current date in game) and every year either Netherlands or Sweden want to resign. I have tried checking how much money they have in Diplomacy on month 12 and they both have over $1 million in cash. They are both ranked the lowest of the AI players but according to the stats I am the lowest of all players. I have 4 of the Indian ports and 10 ports in total spanning Africa and Arabia, but almost all other ports are still available to be taken by any of the AI. Yet each year either one of them resigns and I cannot find a good reason for it. They are not going broke or losing money since they have far more than me and I cannot believe in year 1621 they have such huge bills its going to drain $1 million from their account and end of year.

In 1621 nobody else had any ports but me so again they had no huge expenses to worry about apart from fleets, and the buying/selling of trade. End of that year Sweden resigned. Luckily I had a saved game a few months before so I reloaded, I took a port and gave it to them, and gave them 200,000 cash and asked nothing in return. That still failed and they resigned, I tried it several more times and then finally it worked, but wtf Netherlands then resigned instead. So I reloaded and gave them both ports, gave them both money and nothing in return, offered them Pact's so there was no problem for them getting around at a descent speed. Yet a few times either one would still resign. I ended up closing the game down and coming here and other forums for a while and when I went back for some unknown reason they finally both stayed in the game. So I kept going, 1622, same problem, either one wants to resign for no good reason. 1623 same thing. Now at 1628 and every single damn year either Netherlands or Sweden resign despite me handing over mountains of cash and giving them as much assistance as possible. I checked diplomacy month 12 making sure it wasn't a cash problem. Checked none of the other AI players were taking out there ships but no they weren't at war or hostile with anyone, neither was I.

I know your asking why I am so worried and want the AI to stick around since my ultimate aim is to wipe them out but you see I feel its way too early in the game for them to be resigning, I mean its only been 20 years (long time I know but 20 years out of the full 150 years 1600-1750). I want them to stick around because in my opinion the more competition the better and I want a challenge late in the game, not everyone disappearing so quickly. This game seems absolutely determined that who ever is ranked lowest in terms of wealth for AI MUST resign even though they have no logical reason for it.

I have played a previous game till 1720s and by that time there was only 2 AI left and it was kind of boring since their performance was so poor compared to mine. Why bother with a Ship of the Line 90gun when the only others who have such large ships were infact the pirates (and I'll talk about that in a minute). The game just seems to be over way too fast in terms of the competition, I'd like to see most of them survive until 1700 at least, giving me 50 years to still beat them one way or another and providing me with more reasons to spend $$$$ on large warships.

Why do AI give up so easily and so soon???? I cant find a single problem with them.


Ok on to pirates. 1700 and the 90 gun ship of the line becomes available, 1700 6 months a pirate attacks me with a ship of the line 90 gun.......wtf......how? even if I have unlocked and began building one immediately it would take anther 15 months for one to be ready, how the heck do pirates obtain that ship so soon??? Also why are pirates more capable of getting good ships than the AI cause I never saw a single AI player with anything larger than a Galleon.

I've tried the game on the hardest settings but this does nothing to change the problems I've outlined above, they get freebies in terms of their trade but they still do the same stupid things, giving up early in the game, and no idea how to put together a good fleet. Why is it games always talk about improved AI and yet the only AI we ever see is infact none at all, there is no intelligence there, they need massive cheats and even then they are easily beaten. Don't give them freebies, program them to understand the game, take ports, build large fleets, upgrade ports, and as long as you have enough cash for trade use the rest to build, buy, expand and dont just resign because your at the bottom of the list. As long as they are making some small amount of profit, why resign, just work harder and get to the top of the pile.

I have enjoyed EIC but damn its a frustrating game for many reasons. One of its big failures is just how quickly its all over, how many games are interesting or challenging by 1700 let alone 1750??? Not too many I'd suggest.
 

unmerged(81156)

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Interesting read.
As an avid EU III player (once conquered the whole world with..Venice. Not Italy, Venice. Italy is green (bleh), and Venice is teal (yay). As an EU III newbie, I was a huge fan of those EU III AAR's and was always wandering why some good players very far in their obviously successful campaigns tollerated a bunch of pesky mini-countries in the middle of their big blob-superpower nations. Now I know why. In EIC there is no such thing like bad reputation. You just pick a captain, give him 5 SOTL's and voila, the world is yours in no time, 'crown' or not 'crown'.
I too experienced some of those apparently unprovoked resigns from the AI. France and Sweden. Bad roll or bad luck, they were the first to go when I reloaded an earlier save. At the moment, the only company I am at war with is the pesky yellow Empire. Their ships are paving the sea bottom between Africa nad Cape Verde. I am sure if I could zoom in a bit more, one could be seen walking dry feet all the way from the continent to the islands. they Have less than 100k pounds in the pocket, zero ships, 2 ports (one on the eastern and the second one on the western coast of Africa), zero income, some hefty port maintenance fee (lots of lvl 3 stuff) and they just dont want to throw in the towel, while Sweden just implodes together with their 2 diamond-generating ports.
Go figure the AI logic :)
 

Engioc

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Interesting read.
As an avid EU III player (once conquered the whole world with..Venice. Not Italy, Venice. Italy is green (bleh), and Venice is teal (yay). As an EU III newbie, I was a huge fan of those EU III AAR's and was always wandering why some good players very far in their obviously successful campaigns tollerated a bunch of pesky mini-countries in the middle of their big blob-superpower nations. Now I know why. In EIC there is no such thing like bad reputation. You just pick a captain, give him 5 SOTL's and voila, the world is yours in no time, 'crown' or not 'crown'.
I too experienced some of those apparently unprovoked resigns from the AI. France and Sweden. Bad roll or bad luck, they were the first to go when I reloaded an earlier save. At the moment, the only company I am at war with is the pesky yellow Empire. Their ships are paving the sea bottom between Africa nad Cape Verde. I am sure if I could zoom in a bit more, one could be seen walking dry feet all the way from the continent to the islands. they Have less than 100k pounds in the pocket, zero ships, 2 ports (one on the eastern and the second one on the western coast of Africa), zero income, some hefty port maintenance fee (lots of lvl 3 stuff) and they just dont want to throw in the towel, while Sweden just implodes together with their 2 diamond-generating ports.
Go figure the AI logic :)

Yeah there seems to be no real rhyme or reason to it. Its as if the game just decides every so often a player must resign to make it easier or something, but its too easy and too soon.
 

unmerged(81156)

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Call me crazy, at one time I was even wondering if they maybe missed one of their own campaign mission and THEIR master decided to shut them down for good :) This is one 'explanation' that I could live with he he.
 

Engioc

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Call me crazy, at one time I was even wondering if they maybe missed one of their own campaign mission and THEIR master decided to shut them down for good :) This is one 'explanation' that I could live with he he.

Quite possible except for the fact I'm playing the Free Campaign so since I have no missions I assume the AI don't either.
 

Engioc

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Aaagh, you...you..partybreaker!! :)

:) Well I have played the campaigns, but really there isn't much difference apart from a few extra messages telling you you must go here and do this by whatever date or else.

Anyway I've always preferred free play style over always being given set goals, I prefer to pick and choose my strategy/final goals as I play. Even when play games like Port Royale, Patrician, Anno, etc I always choose the freest playing option. Infact extending that to other genre's I enjoy like Total Annihilation/Supreme Commander I always go skirmish never campaign because really all campaigns (in any game) only serve to limit the possibilities by limiting your units or forcing stricter rules on you and forcing my choices to go a particular way. In part of course this is done to ease (teach) players in to the action, but I've never found I really need that much help and when I do I prefer an informative tutorial built in with separate missions for each section of the game so I can pick and choose what I need/want to learn, and at any time. That way I can play the free style game mode and if I strike a problem I can save and do that section of the tutorial, then swap back to my game once I understand.

Anyway I guess my point is that regardless of which mode of play I choose the AI should still be competitive and not just resign for no good reason. I would of understood their insistence on resigning if I (or another AI player) had put them under pressure some how or if it was later in the game and few to no ports left to take.

Actually as a continuation of this complaints thread (not really complaining but just going through some of the problems I've seen and hoping Nitro are paying attention), in my previous games I've also had ridiculous things going on in diplomacy where I offer a player a port like Goa, Bombay or some other nice Indian port, and before I even get to the point of asking for something in return the red bar shoots up to the highest point and even if I offer every penny I have they dont like the deal, I mean wtf is their problem. Even more comical when you see they have not one single other Indian port, and all other ports are taken apart from the one I'm offering, so an EIC that doesn't want to trade or own ports in India, huh??? It just shows me that the AI doesn't even have a basic understanding of the game, I mean even if they hate my guts after I've just given them a hard time over something else, if we enter negotiations and I offer an Indian port free of charge why the hell wouldn't you take it, specially when you see they're NOT poor. If it were two people playing in that situation and you had the cash to support the town, you'd take it regardless of any previous ill treatment because its not like your losing anything if you take the deal.

Its not just meant as a stab at Nitro, its just I do hate games when you see some basic flaws where the AI clearly doesn't understand the game. AI is never really smart and people will always be able to work them out and run them in to situations they don't understand, but something so obviously wrong like not accepting a free Indian port in EIC, I mean its a fundamental part of the game. If it doesn't understand the importance of owning Indian ports, what does it understand about the game.
 

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Interesting that you mentioned TA and Supreme Commander. Personally, I am a great fan of those games.In TA I finished (both ARM and CORE campaigns) 7 times over ( I think each campaign has 24 single player missions) plus a ton skirmish maps. I agree, skirmish is the meat of the game. Sadly, at the time Supreme Commander hit the shelves my machine was too feeble to run it at decent FPS so I passed that. Only 2 months ago I finally bought SC and its addon Forged Alliance and had a blast: it's an obvious evolution of my beloved TA, nice graphics, tons of units, huge maps, everything. Obviously old Chris knows his trade :)

Since everyone seems to have abandoned EIC, I will hijack this thread of yours and post some questions here. Like: how are you managing the horrible port maintenance beast in later game? I tried and tried to sell only one MTI per year, tried to let the other MTI's gain higher selling price, but selling only one MTI per year (rotation)doesnt seem to be enough to fuel my economy. ATM I have 11 ports (home plus 10 others, mainly in India, some as utility ports, like Cape Town, St. helen and Cape verde (for resupplying ships on auto-trade).
My current yearly expenses are around 300.000 pounds and thos is a beast that is eating away most of my revenues. What should I do? Most of my ports have just lvl 4 Trading Stations (those with export MTI's)lvl 4 forts and lvl 4 garrisons, and one has also lvl 4 shipyard (inBombay, so I can build frigates, Indiamen and in future SOTL's there too, it effectively halves the production times on those big ships). Everything else is skeleton ports. Still, the maintenance fees are bewildering. And how about trading with AI EIC's? Sometimes I can make very good deals with them.
Suggestions?
Thanks for reading.
 

Engioc

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Give me some time, I will reply but at work for now. I started typing up my strategy for you but I've run out of time, need to get back on the job. Will post it later today.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting that you mentioned TA and Supreme Commander. Personally, I am a great fan of those games.In TA I finished (both ARM and CORE campaigns) 7 times over ( I think each campaign has 24 single player missions) plus a ton skirmish maps. I agree, skirmish is the meat of the game. Sadly, at the time Supreme Commander hit the shelves my machine was too feeble to run it at decent FPS so I passed that. Only 2 months ago I finally bought SC and its addon Forged Alliance and had a blast: it's an obvious evolution of my beloved TA, nice graphics, tons of units, huge maps, everything. Obviously old Chris knows his trade :)

Absolutely but having said that, TA and SupCom were great, unfortunately SupCom 2 (imo) is not that good and more akin to the style of play found in most other RTS games, so fewer units. Technology tree and choices that then lockoff other tech, ie research some land based unit and you can no longer build water based (not entirely right but thats generally how it works) and a few other things which make it NOT a true TA/SupCom game.

Since everyone seems to have abandoned EIC, I will hijack this thread of yours and post some questions here. Like: how are you managing the horrible port maintenance beast in later game? I tried and tried to sell only one MTI per year, tried to let the other MTI's gain higher selling price, but selling only one MTI per year (rotation)doesnt seem to be enough to fuel my economy. ATM I have 11 ports (home plus 10 others, mainly in India, some as utility ports, like Cape Town, St. helen and Cape verde (for resupplying ships on auto-trade).
My current yearly expenses are around 300.000 pounds and thos is a beast that is eating away most of my revenues. What should I do? Most of my ports have just lvl 4 Trading Stations (those with export MTI's)lvl 4 forts and lvl 4 garrisons, and one has also lvl 4 shipyard (inBombay, so I can build frigates, Indiamen and in future SOTL's there too, it effectively halves the production times on those big ships). Everything else is skeleton ports. Still, the maintenance fees are bewildering. And how about trading with AI EIC's? Sometimes I can make very good deals with them.
Suggestions?
Thanks for reading.

Well not sure I have any particular strategy for that but I will try and go through how I play and what kinds of things I do.

Well in my current game where I am having huge problems with AI wanting to resign all the time I suspect its because I've done too well too soon. Initially I was a little slower, AI always seems to send its first ship to India because of the larger profit on return, but I used my first ship (which is infact a warship) to start trading Ivory (Abidjan? sorry I forget the spelling and not at home now to check) on a simple auto trade. While doing that I spent half my cash on buying one trade ship (schooner) and then watched to see what the AI was doing, which infact was nothing, maybe because you start with a warship rather than trade it decides to hold back until it's built a trade ship and that certainly appeared to be the case because 4 or 5 months in they started to appear which is about the build time for a ship. Reason for my use of the warship is I figure its better to get going straight away, not sit around waiting for ships to build when I could do at least a little trade.

Ok as game went on I gradually build more and more trade ships, putting them on auto trade routes in this order (working my way around to India gradually):

Luanda
Cape Town
Zanzibar
Jeddah??
Bandar Abbas
Bombay
Madras
Calcutta
Aceh

so finally I had 10 ships/fleet (1 x schooner) all on auto trade. Deciding when to buy was just keeping and eye on current funds, I didn't wait till there was enough for a ship plus calculate how much was needed for each trade route to keep operating and full capacity, eg my second ships was bought when I hit $50,000, 3rd also at about $50,000. 4th was probably a little higher like 75-100K, so gradually letting things build up and trying to keep expanding at reasonable pace.

I then built another schooner to replace the warship on the first auto trade route so it would have more cargo space, and rather than keep the warship I sold it.

Then began work on unlocking ships, particularly the Trade Flute and the Galleon. Funds hit 200K so I ordered up 5 Galleons, waited till all were completed and then created a fleet and put marines onboard all ships and sailed for Calcutta. In this game I had a fantastic run of luck so it made things easier, so essentially I took all the town I listed but in reverse order working my way from India back to Arabia, and then Africa and through all that I never lost a single ship because at the end of most port battles I was able level up the commander so it just got easier and easier. I did lose marines and sailors of course but to counter that as I took each port I immidiately order construction of level 2 Garrison so I could replace the marines, and most ports had a level 1 shipyard (not all so sometimes I'd need to track back to one that did and repair/rearm), then your set to take on the next one. Obviously if you lose ships it will take a bit more time because you'll need to head home to get a new ship so your fleet is still at 5. You can try taking ports with less but obviously it lowers your chance of success so I always prefer to go in as well prepared as possible. I'm a bit of a turtler player in many games, eg TA/SupCom so I always go in with the numbers stacked in my favor as much as possible and try to get the job done on first attempt.

By the time I had done all that it was about 1620 (I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to the date) but that was when my problem began because 1621 and Sweden wants to resign, seems like I scared them off because I already had 10 ports to the AIs NONE. Also all these ports had level 2 Garrison as I built them all along the way to ensure the AI didn't get any ideas of taking them from me.

Beyond that however in most other games and my intention in the current game is to begin replacing all schooners with trade flutes to bring in bigger amounts of trade. So as the money keeps going over 200K keep buying more trade flutes until you've replaced all of your fleets with these, and I normally sell the schooners to get back some of the money to make the change happen a bit quicker. You'll need to stop building ships at times while you wait for the cash to build up and obviously as the bigger flutes begin arriving at their destinations they'll buy up more and lower your cash levels significantly at first so be careful not to over spend. Once thats all done I'll start building a second and eventually a third warship fleet still made of up 5 Galleons in each, these are mainly for protection since I prefer to keep the AI around as long as possible. I'll keep one fleet in my home port, one in Cape Town, and one in Calcutta, that way I feel I am reasonably close to any area on the map should I need to respond to a mission or AI trying to take a port from me (although that is very rare anyway), but there are times you want to clear out some pirates or knock the highest ranked AI player down a notch or two. As I am building those fleets I also build one more flute so I can start delivering ironwares out to all the ports to begin upgrading them and I normally start with the Garrison to level 4, then trading post to start increasing the amount of trade. This will take quite a long time and when its available I start moving from the flute to the Indiaman ships and sell off all the flutes, and once thats done and all fleets have Indiaman ships I being adding more ships to these fleets, at this stage I've never had more than 4 Indiaman ships in each fleet and I dont bother with an escort against the AI.

Once the Garrison and trading post are upgraded to level 4 in all ports I then start working on ensuring I have a level 1 shipyard in all ports for repairs, and in Cape Town and Calcutta a level 4 port to service the fleet of Galleons I have stationed there and build replacement ships when needed. By this time cash isn't really a problem either because once you have East Indiaman trade ships in all fleets, and at least 3 in each fleet, plus the level 4 trading post in each port means your profits are huge and my highest expenses bill even with all this is around the 650K mark. Once thats all happening really the only other thing to do in each port is upgrade the Fort to improve defenses but again these seem a bit unnecessary since the AI rarely attack and even when they do the level 4 Garrison is enough to keep them out. In my current game I'm going to experiment a bit with forts and see how many level 4 I can afford because it takes too much of a hit in the budget but to be honest I think with the amount of trade that will be happening by then it should be fairly easy. In most games by this stage I am pulling in so much cash that even with the 650K expense bill taken out I make a very nice profit in excess of 2 million so I doubt forts are going to break the budget. Last game by 1700 I have close enough to $40mil in cash with the strategy outlined above and I feel I can improve on that with what I'm doing in the current game because I'm pushing things along faster this time to get the big profits rolling in sooner.

Anyway I am sure many people would do it differently and disgree with my strategy but it seems to work well for me and I've never had cash problems except at the very begining of the game but to me thats all the more reason to get your ships moving asap and use as much cash as possible to keep expanding. On the other hand you need to make sure you dont overdo it because you always need to make sure there is enough cash for your trade ships to actually buy something at each end of the trip. Also note I always use auto trade and I hate having to manually do it, one of the things I loved in Patrician and particularly Port Royale and then Port Royale 2 is the trade system and its auto trade is WAY WAY better than EIC and I suspect still beats Commander because it just has so many nice options for customizing what they can and cant trade when left to the AI to decide on what to buy in each port, where goods should be taken from eg warehouse or bought from market. Point is, those who tell you in order to make a profit you need to hand hold all your trade ships are wrong, I make descent profits by setting and forgetting. However I do always manually fight, never auto resolve, its the worst auto resolve/combat I have ever seen when compared to Port Royale. With trade ships always flee until you get the East Indiaman ships up and running, then you can sometimes, and only sometimes, fight back when the odds are in your favor.

I really wish the auto resolve was more like Port Royale where captains always flee and will not attempt to engage the enemy at all. Their purpose is trade and they stick to it and I wish EIC captains on auto trade would just do the same but it appears they try to somehow fight back and lose most of the time which is just dumb. Constant interruptions loading the tactical view, so you can spend a few seconds clicking the flee button and turning the ship away so it wont just flee/sail straight at the enemy and raising the speed to 4.0, then wait for it to tell you how you failed which is total BS anyway, give you a running score on what happened which was nothing, and load back out to the strategic view again. What a waste of my time but no matter how annoying it is you really need to do it if you want the ships to survive. Port Royale's version of this is ships disappear off main map for seconds and reappear and you receive a message which you can choose to ignore or read which tells you what happened and usually that your ships just got their butt out of the fight and didn't get themselves killed trying to take on a war fleet. I didn't have to do a thing. The only fights I have to worry about are the ones I started myself.

Even when your fleet has a clear advantage, full blue compared to a almost non existant red bar telling you that your fleet has a clear advantage and yet auto resolve still often results in a loss, just another very random and unexplainable thing that happens.

Oh forgot couple other things.....I keep the Galleons for long time and I completely skip the Frigates and only upgrade to Ship of the Line 46 gun when they become available and I start building them 5 at a time as soon as they are available. Then 1700 swap them all for the 90gun version. Again had no problems with funds to do all that and as I said my highest expense bill was around 650k which included 3 fleets of 5 ship of the line 46 gun.

Obviously if I was playing this sort of game against real people the strategy would have to change significantly, and I do hope one day someone will make a game like EIC where the whole game can be played multiplayer, rather than what we have now which is just multiplayer tactical battles. Games would work so much better if you eliminated the dumb AI players and had them all controlled by real people.

Any how I figure thats enough on how I play EIC and my complaints.
 
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unmerged(81156)

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After a lenghty search, I found a lot of useful info/tips on this game on this same forum dating from about a year ago when, obviously, the game community was still active. That was about in August 2009. You pretty much summarized what I've read there. Thanks. Have fun.

P.S. This game has its own funny form of logic. Last night there were 2 puzzling 'moments' in my grand campaign. The French started to be a thorn in my side. So I attacked them and, since all my fleets are consisted of 5-stars Captains commanding 5x frigate fleets, I managed to kill off ALL french ships.
They had zero ships. Then, I've got the message and one 100.000 pounds worth quest to defend my port of Zanzibar for 2 years, defend from the..eh? Guess who? The French! Hehe. What a laugh. After a couple months, the French launched 4 sloops which I promptly sunk righ there in the Mediterranean sea, they never reached Gibraltar. Then, a message popped out: The French declared war on the English! With zero ships, and no access to Atlantic. Go figure those Frenchies :)
P.P.S. I managed to 'master' the art of churning out 5-stars captains by following the tips Delra, one of the most active EIC players suggested: pick an enemy/pirate ship, attack it, dismast it, pepper it with grape shot and, when it wants to flee, let it go. There is your first promotion for you rookie captain. After that, the next second, attack it again. It will still be dismasted and all and soon wants to flee. Let it go. Second promotion. Rinse and repead. Cheap as heck but fun. Ah those two Empire schooners, Roswitha nad Anneliese, they will never be forgotten, they allowed 4 of my captains to become 5-star superCaptains lol. :D I probably attacked them 20+ times :p
 

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Actually thats fairly common. Many times you'll receive missions that has nothing to do with the current state of affairs in the game. Many times I've had the missions defend X port and its ALWAYS the French no matter how good/bad they are doing. Also had mission come up many times to Deliver goods to Lisbon, now how do you deliver goods to Portugal when you cant enter AI home ports. What made it even more silly was the fact that Portugal had already resigned in about 1620 and was still getting the mission pop up regularly even after 1700.

Essentially the game has no idea what's actually happening and so missions that are either too easy or cannot be achieved keep popping up.