AI rebels should not be allowed to cross player provinces

[Sandmann]

AI rebels should'nt be able to cross the player provinces. An about 20k morocko pretender rebelstack crossed Ceuta and stackwiped my entire army of about 20k troops. Nowhere to run. Game ruined.

The economy and manpower of Portugal barely let you rebuild that army for like a decade. Must be funny for a new player to experience that without barely knowing what the hell happened.

Suggestion:

The rebel stack should choose the realistic choice to stay in Morocco and fight and lift the siege of Morocco on rebel controlled Fez, morroccan capital.

Instead of crossing the player province the rebels could have the same mechanic on land as when they transport by sea. On land it could represent them travel dispersed through woods and hills to regroup in another AI province.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

AI rebels should'nt be able to cross the player provinces. An about 20k morocko pretender rebelstack crossed Ceuta and stackwiped my entire army of about 20k troops. Nowhere to run. Game ruined.

The economy and manpower of Portugal barely let you rebuild that army for like a decade. Must be funny for a new player to experience that without barely knowing what the hell happened.

Suggestion:

The rebel stack should choose the realistic choice to stay in Morocco and fight and lift the siege of Morocco on rebel controlled Fez, morroccan capital.

Instead of crossing the player province the rebels could have the same mechanic on land as when they transport by sea. On land it could represent them travel dispersed through woods and hills to regroup in another AI province.

Agreed. Rebel armies should behave like actual armies and try fight. That being said, I do think that certain rebel groups (zealots, sepratists, and peasants) shouldn't care about borders and instead focus on the religion and culture map. This way peasant revolts are actual problems for the neighbors, but pretender revolts aren't.

 

[annulen]

At least, rebels should be stopped by forts.

 

[I Couldn't Decide]

Rebels shouldn't be hostile to everyone; would Granadan separatists really be willing to fight Tunisians? Would Austrian pretenders take up arms against the Danish? And would those nations want to waste resources attacking people who don't want to fight them? If anything, rebels entering your lands should be asking for support, or at least asylum. Could even be a CB: "Harboring Traitors".

 

[annulen]

Rebels shouldn't be hostile to everyone; would Granadan separatists really be willing to fight Tunisians? Would Austrian pretenders take up arms against the Danish? And would those nations want to waste resources attacking people who don't want to fight them? If anything, rebels entering your lands should be asking for support, or at least asylum. Could even be a CB: "Harboring Traitors".

Indeed, rebels currently behave like mobs getting angry at anyone in their sight.

I once had a following situation. Rügen (OPM) was taking part in the war of religious leagues and their army was far away from home, somewhere around Austria-Hungary. Meanwhile, they got annexed by another war. As a result, Rügen's army turned into rebels and was immediately killed by armies of their former allies from league war that were moving along.

 

[heroes133]

I dont mind them crossing the borders, but they should turn neutral while doing this so they do not attack your armies, cuz that does not make sense.

 

[SonofWinter]

Rebels shouldn't be hostile to everyone; would Granadan separatists really be willing to fight Tunisians? Would Austrian pretenders take up arms against the Danish? And would those nations want to waste resources attacking people who don't want to fight them? If anything, rebels entering your lands should be asking for support, or at least asylum. Could even be a CB: "Harboring Traitors".

An army of peasant rebels should give you devastation as they walk through your land. This is the 1400s-1700s we're talking about. They didn't exactly have Uber Eats to deliver their food.

But they shouldn't engage in battle while walking through your land either, especially if you sponsored them or decide to sponsor them as an option of their walking through your land.

It would also be nice to have them added to your MP if they do cross over to your land..

 

[annulen]

I dont mind them crossing the borders, but they should turn neutral while doing this so they do not attack your armies, cuz that does not make sense.

Definitely not all rebels should become neutral. For example, separatists that cross border because they have a core in your lands should be hostile (but stoppable by forts). I think it would be better to make rebels hostile to specific countries and neutral to others, or allow them to evade meaningless battles by "teleporting".

 

[annulen]

Another important case is that foreign religious rebels should be able to occupy provinces. In particular, this mechanic is often used in multiplayer games for "selling religion" to the neighbor. While some may see it as an exploit, there aren't many ways of peaceful propagation of religions in game.

 

[I Couldn't Decide]

Another important case is that foreign religious rebels should be able to occupy provinces.

Religious rebels are kinda weird (for example, Catholic rebels can spawn in a Catholic country (because of estates)); they need a slight rework. They should only fire as a result of attempted conversion, automatically occupy their starting province(s), and be neutral to nations with the same religion (would Orthodox rebels in the Ottomans want to fight Orthodox Russians who are attacking the Ottomans?).

In fact, rebels as a whole need to be more significant; right now, they're little more than an annoyance unless you are really small (which will only last for a century or so, at most), or way over 100% OE (and most players doing that can easily take down the resulting rebels). There should be a disaster that can start if there is at least one rebel army with one occupied province. Once progress begins, you would have to keep rebels from firing (with events to make it harder). When it fires, unrest would go way up, stability would go down, etc. You would have to eradicate every rebel army and occupy every province that you own in order for it to stop. Could replace the Peasant Uprising disaster currently in-game.

 

[SonofWinter]

Religious rebels are kinda weird (for example, Catholic rebels can spawn in a Catholic country (because of estates)); they need a slight rework. They should only fire as a result of attempted conversion, automatically occupy their starting province(s), and be neutral to nations with the same religion (would Orthodox rebels in the Ottomans want to fight Orthodox Russians who are attacking the Ottomans?).

In fact, rebels as a whole need to be more significant; right now, they're little more than an annoyance unless you are really small (which will only last for a century or so, at most), or way over 100% OE (and most players doing that can easily take down the resulting rebels). There should be a disaster that can start if there is at least one rebel army with one occupied province. Once progress begins, you would have to keep rebels from firing (with events to make it harder). When it fires, unrest would go way up, stability would go down, etc. You would have to eradicate every rebel army and occupy every province that you own in order for it to stop. Could replace the Peasant Uprising disaster currently in-game.

Agreed. They should certainly go after wrong religion provinces. They are essentially doing a religious purge/forced conversion against non-believers. So if the province is occupied by Russia and they go after a Muslim province and force convert it, that seems plausible. But going out and looting fellow coreligionists seems absurd.

 

[TK3600]

Or better yet add option to not fight the rebel when they cross. Unless I am at war with host country or I am ally/overlord of the host they should be treated as third party neutrals.

 

[annulen]

Or better yet add option to not fight the rebel when they cross.

If *you* don't want to fight these rebels, it doesn't yet mean *they* don't have reasons to fight you (e.g., separatists, religious rebels).

 

[SonofWinter]

If *you* don't want to fight these rebels, it doesn't yet mean *they* don't have reasons to fight you (e.g., separatists, religious rebels).

Yes, but many of the rebel factions don't have a reason to fight your Kingdom and the game does not recognize this.

An army of Noble Rebels in the K of Denmark, doesn't want to cross into the K of Poland to fight the Poles for the Danish Crown.

When you're already fighting your own King for the Crown, you don't want to motivate another netural Kingdom to now ally with your enemy by attacking a neutral Kingdom.

That's called suicide.

 

[TK3600]

If *you* don't want to fight these rebels, it doesn't yet mean *they* don't have reasons to fight you (e.g., separatists, religious rebels).

Like, what if I am France and they are French separatists?

 

[annulen]

Like, what if I am France and they are French separatists?

Then they should be friendly

I mean if separatists have cores in your lands. Read discussion above, repeating it over and over is not fun.

 

[SonofWinter]

Delete

 

[TK3600]

Then they should be friendly

I mean if separatists have cores in your lands. Read discussion above, repeating it over and over is not fun.

I think we are all in agreement over one thing: AI rebel should be neutral/hostile toward different allegiance. Currently it is imposible the way it is programmed.

 

[annulen]

I think we are all in agreement over one thing: AI rebel should be neutral/hostile toward different allegiance. Currently it is imposible the way it is programmed.

If rebels have to belong to omni-hostile "rebel tag" and there's nothing possible to change that (which I doubt, as we already have a mechanic in game that makes rebels friendly), teleportation is another possibility.