AI Rebellion removed from base game in 1.8 and locked behind DLC paywall

[Wizzington]

I said it when you announced the contingency and I still think it's true. You should have fixed the AI rebellion instead of replacing it. Calling the contingency a fix for the AI rebellion is asinine. You yourself just said it's not a rework but a replacement, replacing something is not fixing it. We don't even have the option of sticking to an old version of the game like I normally would in these situations as you have never had a working version of the AI rebellion.

The original AI crisis' design goals was to be one of three endgame crises, triggered by synthetic pops, spawning an AI entity that tries to wipe out all organic empires.

The Contingency's design goals is to be one of three endgame crises, triggered by synthetic pops, spawning an AI entity that tries to wipe out all organic empires.

The design goals for the AI crisis really didn't work with the idea of just being rebelling synths as it makes no sense for a handful of rebelling synths to be a threat on a galactic level, which is why it never really worked. To fix this, it was reworked into the Contingency, a different spin on an AI crisis that can actually meet the design goals that the AI crisis was supposed to meet in the first place.

The machine uprising has completely different design goals and is not in any shape or form similar to the old AI crisis besides involving robots (not even just synths) rising up against their masters. The only similiaries between it and the old AI crisis is thematically. You seem extremely hung up on the themes to the point where you are completely ignoring all actual game mechanics.

 

[Hype]

Have you actually played through a game with the AI rebellion being chosen if you're upset over that they're being reworked and replaced?

They're more like the AI unconsciousness in their current form, and were in absolute need of change.

Except you're not losing anything because the AI rebellion never happens.

In 890 hours of Stellaris I've seen it exactly once. And it didn't even happen to me but to an AI and it spawned a one planet minor that did nothing for the rest of the game.

This is not a situation where "here's this piece of content that I enjoyed experiencing that's going away" becuase it doesn't happen anyway. It is already functionally not in the game at all.

Yes, as currently implemented the AI rebellion is broken. I've said and awknowledged this all over this thread. The issue is that instead of fixing it they replaced it then implemented a new AI rebellion as DLC. I'm not sure how else I can explain that. Yes, I understand the scope of the new AI rebellion is smaller.

 

[SuiciSpai]

Yes, as currently implemented the AI rebellion is broken. I've said and awknowledged this all over this thread. The issue is that instead of fixing it they replaced it then implemented a new AI rebellion as DLC. I'm not sure how else I can explain that. Yes, I understand the scope of the new AI rebellion is smaller.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but they did not already said that the replacement, wich is the same in paper, The contingency, is on the free patch and not on the DLC, wich have another different new one?

 

[Hype]

You seem extremely hung up on the themes to the point where you are completely ignoring all actual game mechanics.

That's a perfect way to put it. The themes are exactly what I'm hung up on. I don't see how that addresses my complaint though. One of the core themes (what I found interesting about it) of the original crisis is now only available with the DLC.

 

[Wizzington]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but they are not already said that the replacement, The contingency, is on the free patch and not on the DLC, wich have another different new one?

The Contingency is in the free update, because it's a replacement of the old AI crisis.

The Machine Uprising (which will be detailed in the next dev diary) is in the story pack, because it's an extension of Machine Empire mechanics.

 

[SuiciSpai]

The Contingency is in the free update, because it's a replacement of the old AI crisis.

The Machine Uprising (which will be detailed in the next dev diary) is in the story pack, because it's an extension of Machine Empire mechanics.

That is what I thought, silly me, I don't know then whats happening here!

 

[Wizzington]

That's a perfect way to put it. The themes are exactly what I'm hung up on. I don't see how that addresses my complaint though. One of the core themes (what I found interesting about it) of the original crisis is now only available with the DLC.

Features are defined by their mechanics far more than their themes. Saying that we're never allowed to make any paid feature that involves robots rebelling because the old AI crisis had that theme is a silly complaint, and by that logic Machine Empires themselves should be free, since their backstory involves rebelling AIs.

In short, you define the AI crisis by being a robot rebellion. I define it by being an AI-themed endgame crisis. By your logic, Hive Minds are the same feature as the Scourge because they're both Hive Mind-themed.

 

[Hype]

Features are defined by their mechanics far more than their themes. Saying that we're never allowed to make any paid feature that involves robots rebelling because the old AI crisis had that theme is a silly complaint, and by that logic Machine Empires themselves should be free, since their backstory involves rebelling AIs.

In short, you define the AI crisis by being a robot rebellion. I define it by being an AI-themed endgame crisis. By your logic, Hive Minds are the same feature as the Scourge because they're both Hive Mind-themed.

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not at all saying you can't make new paid content with similar or the same themes. I'm saying you shouldn't remove content and then release paid content with the same theme. If you had left the old AI rebellion in, fixing the issues it had instead of removing it I would have no problem with the new content.

I'd be just as pissed if you removed the Scourge, replaced them with unicorns, and released a new devouring swarm crisis in DLC.

 

[Bayes]

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not at all saying you can't make new paid content with similar or the same themes. I'm saying you shouldn't remove content and then release paid content with the same theme. If you had left the old AI rebellion in, fixing the issues it had instead of removing it I would have no problem with the new content.

I'd be just as pissed if you removed the Scourge, replaced them with unicorns, and released a new devouring swarm crisis in DLC.

It isnt removed, from what I understand the only reason you are upset is because of the naming, wiz just said that it has the same role as the previous ai crisis.

 

[Wizzington]

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not at all saying you can't make new paid content with similar or the same themes. I'm saying you shouldn't remove content and then release paid content with the same theme. If you had left the old AI rebellion in, fixing the issues it had instead of removing it I would have no problem with the new content.

I'd be just as pissed if you removed the Scourge, replaced them with unicorns, and released a new devouring swarm crisis in DLC.

This is a very bad comparison. Machine Uprisings are not a crisis in any shape or form, they are a revolt localized to one empire. In your analogy, they are the unicorn.

 

[Hype]

IT ISNT REMOVED THEY JUST CHANGED THE NAME, CHRIST.

Not according to Wiz.

The machine rebellion is completely new content that only happens to share some themes with the old AI crisis. It is not a rework of the old AI crisis events.

 

[TempusxX]

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not at all saying you can't make new paid content with similar or the same themes. I'm saying you shouldn't remove content and then release paid content with the same theme. If you had left the old AI rebellion in, fixing the issues it had instead of removing it I would have no problem with the new content.

I'd be just as pissed if you removed the Scourge, replaced them with unicorns, and released a new devouring swarm crisis in DLC.

seriously how is it so difficult for you to understand that they didn't remove it they just changed the name, all you are doing is over reacting

 

[Hype]

This is a very bad comparison. Machine Uprisings are not a crisis in any shape or form, they are a revolt localized to one empire. In your analogy, they are the unicorn.

Uh, the unicorn replaced the end game crisis in my analogy so that's probably not what you meant to say. Having something localized to only one empire doesn't make it not a crisis.

 

[Bayes]

Not according to Wiz.

Yeah thats my point, the new content is new content, you still got the ai crisis but actually working now and it has another name.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Uh, the unicorn replaced the end game crisis in my analogy so that's probably not what you meant to say. Having something localized to only one empire doesn't make it not a crisis.

If a one planet minor that sits on its ass all game is a crisis you need to up your game.

 

[Hype]

Yeah thats my point, the new content is new content, you still god a the ai crisis but actually working now and it has another name.

The contingency is not an AI rebellion. It is not the same thing with a different name, it is a completely different set of events that is unrelated.

 

[Wizzington]

Uh, the unicorn replaced the end game crisis in my analogy so that's probably not what you meant to say. Having something localized to only one empire doesn't make it not a crisis.

They are the unicorn in the sense that they are something far more different from the old AI crisis than the Contingency.

And yes, by our official, specific definition of what is and is not and endgame crisis a localized rebellion threatening one empire does not qualify.

 

[Bayes]

The contingency is not an AI rebellion. It is not the same thing with a different name, it is a completely different set of events that is unrelated.

Its not a completly different set of events, wiz just made the case that they have the same role. So at the very least they arent that. I think you need a very specific interpretation for your point to make any sence and if the devs should be held accountable to any interpretation that would be absurd.

EDIT: also the quote you linked seemed to confirm my point, I think you might be misunderstanding something.

 

[Hype]

They are the unicorn in the sense that they are something far more different from the old AI crisis than the Contingency.

And yes, by our official, specific definition of what is and is not and endgame crisis a localized rebellion threatening one empire does not qualify.

Ah, I misunderstood you then. Yes, the new uprising is not an endgame crisis. I have no issues with it being down sized and only being a local crisis, I just don't like the removal of AI uprisings from the base game. Whether the events happen as a local mid-game crisis or an endgame one.

 

[Tim_Ward]

I just don't like the removal of AI uprisings from the base game.

They've just changed the name.