AI Production management

[unmerged(132822)]

The AI would be greatly improved if proper production management were used.

This might imply a little memory or statistic, but would be very useful:

If the germans place 20 navs in the coast and the convoys, transports and passing ships are getting blown, the AI can know that in the last 3 months the loss rate is 40 transports-month and it needs to start building them at least at that rate.

If there is an infantry carnage, then it should build more to compensate. Likewise fighters, bombers - the AI must have a little memory and some objectives in terms of force balance.

The AI must also give extreme priority to whatever affects its production - is it getting low on rares or metal? Are the transports threatened?

Force balance can be a "national" characteristic - Russians love tanks, brits love bombers - and the country will try to aim towards it. It should also be changed by mods and events,thus shifting from a "homeland defence" to an "invasion" mode as needed.

 

[unmerged(131342)]

Force balance can be a "national" characteristic - Russians love tanks, brits love bombers - and the country will try to aim towards it. It should also be changed by mods and events,thus shifting from a "homeland defence" to an "invasion" mode as needed.

The better question: why do brits love bombers and russia tanks? Britain has a big wall of water protecting them from the german army, and have air superiority at least over their own country. Russia has to deal with an enormous land war and thus likes tanks... Such a country focus should thus be due to the situation it is in.

How would you switch a bombing britain to an invading one though?

 

[unmerged(132822)]

There are limits to AI. Events and focus-shifting should be a help here.

The other question is, when does it shift from invasion back to defence if there is a setback?

However I believe that production management can work almost independently, have a very low overhead cost and greatly improve the computer player's odds without cheating.

If your planes are being shot up, you make more. Upgrading needs to be revamped. Production must be optimized.

Low IC, high manpower? Divisions. Lots of IC, low manpower? Tanks - unless low on fuel as well.

Plus events and "tendencies". WWII had a lot of nuttiness, like the germans insisting on bombers (and wasting them afterwards) instead of fighters to stop the roof falling on their heads.

 

[unmerged(131221)]

Low IC, high manpower? Divisions. Lots of IC, low manpower? Tanks - unless low on fuel as well.

Tank divisions take the same number of manpower as other divisions. Its rather planes (+ rockets) and ships IMO + instalations (forts/radars/AA etc)

 

[unmerged(52507)]

I get annoyed with the commonwealth ai. The dominions hardly produce any cruisers at all, even when they are flooded with DDs. They also love int over ftr.

 

[Razor]

The AI would be greatly improved if proper production management were used.

This might imply a little memory or statistic, but would be very useful:

If the germans place 20 navs in the coast and the convoys, transports and passing ships are getting blown, the AI can know that in the last 3 months the loss rate is 40 transports-month and it needs to start building them at least at that rate.

Very good and I hope there will be changes in HOI3. How sad isn't it to find that the US AI has no transports in the atlantic (or at all) when the time for D-day has come?

 

[unmerged(122975)]

From what I know, the AI follows a list of "units to build" but I think this could easily be improved.

The AI should check from time to time how many units of a every type it has, calculate the relative weight of them in the army and then compare to a list of the optimum weight every type should have, to see what type of units it is missing, and start building them.

The AI should also be able to modify that list the optimum weight of units in the army according to circunstances like avaibility of resourses, enemy units being fought...

 

[GLENN]

The only way to fix this is to set certain parameters for the AI to look at.

Then it would have to be reviewed every so often.

When each level is reached it triggers an event to switch the AI build.

This is done now but only switches one way.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

What the AI really needs to do is plan ahead, so it can build stuff it will actually need within the next 6-12 months. That technology probably lies a few decades in the future, though...

 

[mathers]

Hey guys:

The AI works just like you describe in HoI 2:

do you shoot down all the english bomber? They focus only rebuilding them resulting in noprogress at all. Do you sink all the american carreer? Only carreers will bein their queue.

The pitfall with the simple logic you are suggesting is the following:
If the higher casualties in a specific branch (transport, bomber, ship, etc) then you suggest the AI should build just that. The problem is if the AI just rebuilds that then it will loose them again. what it should do instead:
Do I loose bombers? I need air superoity therefore I will build some fighter (or capture airfields or leave airwar altogether anb build AA)
Do I loose transports? If due to bombers I build fighters to air cover, or carreers or CLAA-s. And rebuild them just afterwards I have proper escort.
Do I loose ships, but my airforce intact? Lets build some more naval bomber beforefleet rearmament.

 

[PIT_AMERO]

Hey guys:

The AI works just like you describe in HoI 2:

do you shoot down all the english bomber? They focus only rebuilding them resulting in noprogress at all. Do you sink all the american carreer? Only carreers will bein their queue.

The pitfall with the simple logic you are suggesting is the following:
If the higher casualties in a specific branch (transport, bomber, ship, etc) then you suggest the AI should build just that. The problem is if the AI just rebuilds that then it will loose them again. what it should do instead:
Do I loose bombers? I need air superoity therefore I will build some fighter (or capture airfields or leave airwar altogether anb build AA)
Do I loose transports? If due to bombers I build fighters to air cover, or carreers or CLAA-s. And rebuild them just afterwards I have proper escort.
Do I loose ships, but my airforce intact? Lets build some more naval bomber beforefleet rearmament.

Exactly, if you want to win you have to develop better tactics, but not to built more of the same.

 

[Wulf145]

Exactly, if you want to win you have to develop better tactics, but not to built more of the same.

It is easy for us humans to come up wit that, but an AI that could come up with that on its own is beyond PIs capabilities considering the release date (no offence intended). What could be done is to give the AI several alternate stratagies, like if Strat. bomber strength < 70 go on AS missions with fighters.
Threat level on border (or nearest Land mass for UK) > x = beef up garison on shore, etc.
I am sure that if one gives each countries AI a decent set of 'rules' to follow the AI will be a challange (at least untill one understands the rules )

Afterthought: Maybe the nations "Missions" will have such an effect e.g. for UK keep sealanes to the Colonies free of interfierence.

 

[GLENN]

Percieved threat ?

The AI is improved through intellegence in HOI3 unfortunately its only for the near term.

If the AI has the FOG of war lifted by giving it better intel to see whats behind the enemy lines it then it can react accordingly and have better tactics.

Maybe if the intellegence could be spread further so they can see what the enemy is building it could compensate with the appropiate counter build.

The problem then lies with the human. They always change their mind and what they build. So the question is; can the AI keep up? And at what point does it consider to switch? What the AI switches too still has to be hard coated as a % like it is now (land lock countries don't build Navies). But will the computer scrap its current build?

For example, if USSR and UK builds nothing but a Navy and the AI does a counter build, and then the human switches the production que to tanks, does the AI follow a counter build strategy? If so, when does it switch?

You see it has to percieve the build is a threat.

Just something to think about.

Until the AI can percieve a build plan is a concrete threat it can not plan to beat the human as it does in Chess. Plus it can only explore so many possiblities and put a certain amount of effort (time) to explore a move.

 

[{LD}Firestorm]

Half their coding staff is working on the AI from a month ago till they release it.

I think we need not worry about the AI.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I both hope and think that it is possible to create a competitive AI. All things considered this is a complex game I still think that we could have a competent AI.

I have done some programing myself in the area and I know some about layered levels of AI and how that works. It is complex but definitely possible with modern computers. It is not that hard to create a learning AI that can and will adapt to changing circumstances.
It is very important that you have many small AI for different tasks and that you have a hierarchy of links between them. each AI will be an expert in its area and learn from its own mistakes. Then there is an important factor of communication between these individual AI and level of priority between them. I really think that Paradox seem to go in this direction with their command structure and other area of the administration of a country. With time and effort they will hopefully come up with a reasonable AI structure and one who will be able to plan and keep objectives.
What I missed in the AI of HoI2 was an AI that could keep focus on objectives and work towards a certain goal. Production planning is not only a way to react to losses but also to follow a plan of operation and when to change from defensive to offensive mode (or reverse) in a broader scope. Just see AI units moving back and forth all the time for no apparent reason are annoying and need to be dealt with. AI need to understand concentration of force and when missions are a waste of resources.