Why? This never happened in RL on the two occasions the Abombs where used.
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Why? This never happened in RL on the two occasions the Abombs where used.
Right , like everyone was happy with a bomb killing a million people ? (and thats only two bombs , imagine if you throw 10 ? 50 ? you really think the press or crowds with slight self conscious will have a say ?)
that sounds very realistic too right ? and like i said its more of a User control balance thingy were you cant just keep on using the bombs (and for mod34s case the AI ) without any consquences
The problem here is that you are looking at A-bombs from a modern perspective - your average man in the street back then just thought of it as a really big bomb.
I don't recall their being any record of any protests in the US (or any of the Allies) after the bombs had been dropped. More the opposite of relief that the war was at an end.
Well. Nuking should increase belligerance as enemies will view you as a greater threat from your willingness to engage in mass destruction. And maybe when nukes fall or get researched, the AI should put a higher priority on researching nukes (if research priorities could be changed), to simulate nuclear proliferation.
Hell, my grandparents tell me there were parties in the streets the day the sun rose on Hiroshima.
Then again, you know...I'm Chinese
Then theres the problem too as the game strechtes to very mnodern times , 50's 60 's , im sure by then its Not ok to do it very often
Depends on the circumstances - if you are at war with someone and they nuke you first I doubt very much that any percentage of your population would complain if you nuked the others back.
Look, HOI and AOD are first and foremost WWII games, and in that time period civilians were largely indifferent to the Atrocities their own governments committed. All the comments here are fine and make valid points, but the way game models nukes is fine for the period of WWII. Rule changes for the cold-war era would be nice, but not essential for me in the way the game runs.
Then you never played a mod. There's nothing broken. I have personally set my AI files to have USA building and using nukes vs Japan.
Its quite easy to do mod AI to use nukes actually. I did that with no previous experience, just by reading save game carefully.
HOI Is a WWII Game indeed. But AoD Promises an extension to WWII into the first half of the Cold War. Thus, the Nuke Model should account for this as well.
I always thought that nukes were too tame in HoI2 as a nuked province could recover pretty soon and there were few effects impacting your country as a whole.
I think - no offense - you don't know much about the real history of WW2.
This wasn't a "let's nuke Japan because they're totally innocent" but rather the other way around. Japan was the only Nation massively using biological and chemical weapons in WW2, even against civilians. Approx. 30 millions got killed in China alone due to their aggressive warfare. The people in the other conquered regions weren't treated better. Their attack on Pearl Harbor was just the last straw. There was no remorse given. If you would have asked the average US citizen in 1942-1945 if they should kill all japanese they can find, you might have very probably found a clear majority for a yes.
In the American mind of that time, the japanese were much worse than the Nazis. Given that most of this was because the public already knew about the terrible things that the japanese did to the people in South-East asia while most things the nazis did were not yet known to the public.
Also, by using the A-Bomb they killed approx. 200.000 japanese. By using a conventional invasion army, they would have lost probably more than 200.000 American GIs alone, not to speak of Millions of Japanese who would have run against the Americans with sticks and stones.
The A-Bomb was the only hope to show their fascist gouvernment that it's over for good. If they wouldn't capitulate, they would be wiped of the map.
So, I doubt that deploying the A-Bomb should cause any dissent in the country using it. Usually the gouvernments of that time, democracy or not, had very strict control over their medias (Yes, censorship was and is used widely in all countries, especially during war times) so that they would always be able to glorify the usage of the bomb, no matter what.
The use of nukes by the AI is to random to me and thereby i rather keep it as it is now.
Plus a human player can exploit them greatly wich also doesnt make it better to increase the use of them.
One of the worst parts to me is that an AI with nukes would nuke its own capital if its under enemy controll and if its the best closeby target, and that really doesnt make it fun to me...
Dissent also woundt solve these problems, and dissent really isnt the right option anyway to limit this becaus the 2 nukes on Japan were rather welcomed at the end of the war, with good reasons cause the ammount of deaths could have been 10x or more if the Allies had to invade Japan, besides the Tokyo bombings killed more people then either of the 2 nukes but we are not gonna put dissent for strategic bombings are we?
The only thing i would like is an option that would remove nukes alltogether in the game your about to play (an on/off option), meaning neither you nor the AI can even get their hands on nukes if you dont want it in the game your about to play.
That would remove the problem for those who dislike the current situation of nukes in HoI2 (like me), but it will still leave the option open for those who do want it.
Plus a human player can exploit them greatly wich also doesnt make it better to increase the use of them.
One of the worst parts to me is that an AI with nukes would nuke its own capital if its under enemy controll and if its the best closeby target, and that really doesnt make it fun to me...
Dissent also woundt solve these problems, and dissent really isnt the right option anyway to limit this becaus the 2 nukes on Japan were rather welcomed at the end of the war, with good reasons cause the ammount of deaths could have been 10x or more if the Allies had to invade Japan, besides the Tokyo bombings killed more people then either of the 2 nukes but we are not gonna put dissent for strategic bombings are we?
The only thing i would like is an option that would remove nukes alltogether in the game your about to play (an on/off option), meaning neither you nor the AI can even get their hands on nukes if you dont want it in the game your about to play.
That would remove the problem for those who dislike the current situation of nukes in HoI2 (like me), but it will still leave the option open for those who do want it.
Well, I have mostly played doomsday, and in this game the AI have never produced A-bombs (at least it didn't happen to me)...
The thing is that, if i'm correct, the game stretches now to the 60's, and I can't simply imagine that the "glorious" Soviet Union doesn't have a single A-bomb!
How the AI should be using them is another thing, but they (at least superpowers) should be producing them.
The thing is that, if i'm correct, the game stretches now to the 60's, and I can't simply imagine that the "glorious" Soviet Union doesn't have a single A-bomb!
How the AI should be using them is another thing, but they (at least superpowers) should be producing them.
In Vanilla (meaning Unmodded) versions of the game, they AI will never build nukes (only use them when they are available, for example in the Doomsday Scenario as USA).
I also agree Nukes should be on, hoping for an improved usage ogic for the AI.
However, I am ok wih having an option to turn them off or make it easily modable... (But, if it stays the other way, being off and modable in, I am afraid that the current problems will remain, making it actually a not fan choice...)
Edit AI files and it would okey.
BTW, I think the worst matter in HOI2 is being nuked by AI.
BTW, I think the worst matter in HOI2 is being nuked by AI.
Played a mod or modded the files myself?
I dont play 'mods'...............I do however mod the AI or save files in games and that alone isnt enough to actually make the AI build the reactors or use the nukes wisely.............it will get them to research the techs,and,as long as you remember to do it,the delivery systems.............but I have ALWAYS had to actually start them building reactors.............and unless one makes sure to put them someplace smart,the AI will,inevitably,put them someplace dumb............Moscow,Berlin or Miami seem popular for some reason...........
So,yes,its 'broken'. It dosent work,even if one tweaks it quite a bit.....and,to be fair,a 'mod' or a time consuming 'fix' in the savegame and other files isnt enough to call it 'unbroken',more like 'less broken and kind of fixed'........its best use is,of course,in multiplayer................
Well, IIRC you only have to change build reactor to yes, set the maximum size of reactor, alter the amount of IC devoted to construction, and I you can probably choose the province where it should be built, but I am not sure about that.