AI Naval build scheme

[Hibernian]

I tried asking this question in another part of the forum but got no responses, so I'll try here, I've been trying to fiddle around with the A.Is in one of my VIP save games, and I think I now understand how to make the AI build armies (desired army size, etc), but I can't figure out how to get certain countries to build a navy.

I know there's a "desired navy size" command, but when I tried that, all they built was loads of transports, so I then figured out that the "transport = 80.000" line was making it do that, but now even after I've put transports down to 10 or 20, some AI nations just will not build any warships.

To give an example, I'm playing as the USA, and Ireland was created, and in this game it had a population of 40 million, 10,000 industry, 20 infantry divisions, but wouldn't build any navy until I changed the navy size thing in the save file, now they've built about 60 transport ships and nothing else, total useless!

At the same time, minor and comparatively poor nations, like Nova Scotia and New Zeeland built a navy of about 20 cruisers each, what gives?

I've also see some countries build large fleets of cruisers, but no dreadnoughts or battleships at all, even though they are obviously capable of doing so. Is there any way I can influence this behaviour?

 

[OHgamer]

it's very tricky.

like you said, part of the issue is desired_navy_size. Setting it to -1 will have the AI decide to build as much as possible what it feels it needs. If you set it to a positive number, then it appears to aim for that many units total as the optimal size, though if it has older naval units it may not replace them with newer units until the old ones are destroyed.

then there is also the breakdown by type of unit (capital, fast and transport). transport = 80.0 means it should build 80% of its navy as transports. Playing around with those numbers can help.

One other thing I've found is that if you have the AI files change and the naval settings have slightly different values between old and new files, it helps to spur the navies to be built.

 

[unmerged(42723)]

then there is also the breakdown by type of unit (capital, fast and transport). transport = 80.0 means it should build 80% of its navy as transports. Playing around with those numbers can help.

One thing I'm wondering is that some AI files have different breakdowns. For example FRA.ai has a very detailed one:

# NAVY:
submarine = 5
# --------- 5 # Submarines
dreadnought = 0
battleship = 0
ironclad = 0
monitor = 5
manowar = 5
# --------- 10 # Ships-of-the-Line
heavy_cruiser = 5
cruiser = 5
commerce_raider = 0
frigate = 5
# ---------- 15 # Escort/Fast ships
steamer_transport = 5
clipper_transport = 5
# ---------- 10 # Transports

But other french files like FRAearly.ai have a rather reduced form:

# NAVY:
submarine = 10
line = 50
fast = 10
transport = 30
# 100

Why is this, and does one file or method of breakdown take priority over the other?

 

[OHgamer]

if the newer file has the short form, that means those elements from the older file are kept into the new file. So if that breakdown is in the older AI file, when the new one loads, those parameters will remain the same since they are not overwritten in the new file.

and note that VIP only uses AI files that have the Prefix VIP in the name of the files, so for France those are VIP_FRAearly.ai, VIP_FRAmiddle.ai etc

 

[unmerged(42723)]

Ok, thx.

 

[unmerged(92986)]

How do you open the .ai files? to change the settings

 

[OHgamer]

How do you open the .ai files? to change the settings

open them with notepad

 

[unmerged(92986)]

open them with notepad

Thank you, I've been trying to open those things for weeks, An i could of just opened with notepad :rofl:

Ignore the PM

Cheers Matey!!!!

 

[Hibernian]

@ OHgamer, Ok thanks for the help there, but can you be a bit more specific?

First of all, when you're talking about editing the files, are you talking about the games AI files or the "AI section" of the save game? (which is what I was editing). I haven't gone near the actual AI files yet, just adjusted my save games, will that have an effect, or will the save game that I load use only the info in that save file?

In the Military area of the save file, I can see various lines that seem to be to do with navies...
I've got:

desired_navy_size =
line =
fast =
submarine =
transport =
torpedo_boat =
destroyer =
corvette =
minelayer =
minesweeper =

Which of these affects the AI's decision to build Warships?
I'm guessing that Destroyers/Torpedo boats, etc are just brigades, but the only thing I don't understand the meaning of is "line" and "fast", are these the important ones?

 

[unmerged(77251)]

@ OHgamer, Ok thanks for the help there, but can you be a bit more specific?

First of all, when you're talking about editing the files, are you talking about the games AI files or the "AI section" of the save game? (which is what I was editing). I haven't gone near the actual AI files yet, just adjusted my save games, will that have an effect, or will the save game that I load use only the info in that save file?

In the Military area of the save file, I can see various lines that seem to be to do with navies...
I've got:

desired_navy_size =
line =
fast =
submarine =
transport =
torpedo_boat =
destroyer =
corvette =
minelayer =
minesweeper =

Which of these affects the AI's decision to build Warships?
I'm guessing that Destroyers/Torpedo boats, etc are just brigades, but the only thing I don't understand the meaning of is "line" and "fast", are these the important ones?

IIRC, the most important one is the "line" tag, which refers to heavy warships, while "fast" may refer to cruisers. I *think* that total number of lin+fast+sub+transport must be equal to 100, since it refers to percent of shipbuilding - but this should be checked.
I remember a game where I messed around with those lines with GER, (playing HOL) and ended with a German monster fleet of more the 200DNs...

 

[OHgamer]

IIRC, the most important one is the "line" tag, which refers to heavy warships, while "fast" may refer to cruisers. I *think* that total number of lin+fast+sub+transport must be equal to 100, since it refers to percent of shipbuilding - but this should be checked.
I remember a game where I messed around with those lines with GER, (playing HOL) and ended with a German monster fleet of more the 200DNs...

yes, line (big ships) + fast (frigates/cruisers) + transport should = 100. set transports to 80, and the AI will try to build 80% of its fleet as transports.

desired_navy_size is the "target" number of total units that the AI should strive to build. Set to -1, it will have the AI build as much as it can to become the strongest navy of all.

and hibernian, yes I am referring to the files in the ai folder. If you change these values in an individual savegame, they will only affect that game, and only for as long as that AI is not changed by a new AI file (And in VIP major nations have at least 3 changes of AI during the course of the game, sometimes more, and those files will overwrite any changes you make in a savegame file).

 

[Hibernian]

Right ok, thanks for the help there guys.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of it now, and I've now got some of the obstinate nations to start building a few navies. There still seems to be some cases where no matter how I set it certain country won't build warships. Maybe their AI's just need to be woken up by being in a war, I'll try that next.

I think I'll permanently modify some of those VIP AI files, to make sure there are some nice navies next time. Why is it that certain countries have been deliberately prevented from having navies, by having their "line" and "fast" commands set to zero?

It doesn't make much sense to me, because often some nations will rise to prominence that didn't do so historically, but the way it's set up those countries can't become big military powers no matter how powerful they become economically or no matter how many wars they might fight.
Maybe this should be reviewed for the next instalment of the mod.

 

[OHgamer]

Right ok, thanks for the help there guys.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of it now, and I've now got some of the obstinate nations to start building a few navies. There still seems to be some cases where no matter how I set it certain country won't build warships. Maybe their AI's just need to be woken up by being in a war, I'll try that next.

I think I'll permanently modify some of those VIP AI files, to make sure there are some nice navies next time. Why is it that certain countries have been deliberately prevented from having navies, by having their "line" and "fast" commands set to zero?

It doesn't make much sense to me, because often some nations will rise to prominence that didn't do so historically, but the way it's set up those countries can't become big military powers no matter how powerful they become economically or no matter how many wars they might fight.
Maybe this should be reviewed for the next instalment of the mod.

In general in VIP those nations don't rise to ahistorical power status on a regular basis. The AIs are designed to keep the AI environment historical in VIP, and if you set naval elements to build navies with capital ships, the result will instead be smaller nations that didn't historically build capital-ship navies wasting their money trying to build them.

In the end, given that VIP is biased towards a historical game environment goal, for the AIs to be set to behave as historically as possible given the degree of control the AI files allow.