That's interesting, I thought that it worked only on tech group, there must be some other factor at work as well.
AI is WAY WAY WAY too Protectorate-Happy
- Thread starter Pellucid
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That's interesting, I thought that it worked only on tech group, there must be some other factor at work as well.
How do I mod away the ability for Russia to Protectorate Hordes. It's really ruining my game?
Well I just started a game as Najd, increased all my tech to 32, and could still vassalize the indian nations.
People keep talking about how to fix protectorates. I don't get it. Just take them out! They serve no purpose. It's like talking about how to fix a random scrap of metal you found on the sidewalk. Who knows what it was supposed to go to or why it is here. Whatever the whole was, it isn't apparent enough to do anything with the scrap of metal. I've still yet to even hear from the devs about what their intention was for protectorates much less about all the countless issues they created by introducing them prematurely. They just appeared in the patch with no rhyme or reason and broke everything. Just remove them!
Is there any motivation for me as a player to fight a war to create a protectorate? Nope.
Do protectorates benefit you at all when having them? They give some trade power pffft. On the other hand they block you from expanding. Nope.
Can you do anything with a protectorate when you've got one? Nope. Wait a century and hope they westernize, in which case you're back to where you started.
Seriously! What's the point?
Is there any motivation for me as a player to fight a war to create a protectorate? Nope.
Do protectorates benefit you at all when having them? They give some trade power pffft. On the other hand they block you from expanding. Nope.
Can you do anything with a protectorate when you've got one? Nope. Wait a century and hope they westernize, in which case you're back to where you started.
Seriously! What's the point?
If all tags left are your vassals or protectorates, right now you get world conquest, so they're a window into making that easier than in any other patch because you can militarily force protectorate on a nation of any size at 100%, even giants like Ming.
Aside from that, they're worth only trade power and broken fleet rights. They wouldn't be nearly as bad if you couldn't peacefully create one while a nation as at war, inheriting the war, and if there were limits on subject nations such that they can't create them. Protectorates really shouldn't be declaring on their master or holding any separate alliances, either.
if they were intended as a tool to WC, they actually counter that in my book. While it would be nice to have them count without taking a diplo slot, they get in the way, because you cannot ever annex them. Since you cannot annex them, you cannot DOW the guy on the other side of them....ever...well without the stab hit. Before you could vassalize them, use them, and then annex them later when you wanted to move on to the next guy. They are just a hinderance in my book, like the wasteland areas on the map.
That's not 100% true. The trick is to annex a piece --> fab claim --> give back to owner. That, or run tons of canceled loans CBs I guess, but in practice most of the time you can get by with simply annexing something and instantly starting the claim fabrication, no need to even core since fabrication continues even when you give the province back immediately after. Alternatively, the expansion finisher lets you pretty much run free on well over 1/2 of the protectorate candidates anyway.
The stupidest thing about protectorates is, it requires only +1 relations, and a border with them, then whammo they will agree peaceably. At least give it the +190 relations requirement so russia isnt making all of asia a protectorate.
My hansa game, After conquering a few provinces from Vianagra and delhi, I sent some diplomats to improve relations, and bam, all of india was protectorateized. Every single province, for no cost/effort.
My hansa game, After conquering a few provinces from Vianagra and delhi, I sent some diplomats to improve relations, and bam, all of india was protectorateized. Every single province, for no cost/effort.
QFE
Oh get this. Last night in my ottoman game i dow crimea...and TEN DAYS after the war starts their RIVAL Lithuania (who is in the polish PU btw) makes crimea a protectorate. Even tho they're rivals, were just at war, and lithuania isnt even independent. So now im at war with Poland as war leader, against about a dozen nations, including austria and her allies. I save scummed it like 10 times just to see if it kept happening, and it did. And for the record i had very high relations with poland austria and lithuania.
I would pay real moneys for a dev to explain to me how this is a good thing (forget fun, cause it clearly isnt). A huge part of expansion in eu4 is picking and chosing who and when to dow... I suppose that isnt a part of the game any more. Forget strategy (u know actually paying attention to who is allied with who) now apparently it's random who you're going to war with.
Just wanted to get this out there and i hope everyone is made aware of this game breaking bs. From this point on i guess the only thing to do is to only declare war, no matter how small or weak your enemy...only declare war when you're ready to fight the entire hre.
I ended up just changing the Nomad tech group to 65% rather than 75%. This way eastern can't protectorate nomads.
I think so, but that's a pretty meager cost for being way stronger than all of your neighbors and not having to commit any military resources.
While there has been a lot of vitriol regarding patch 1.4's changes, most of which I think is vastly overrated in terms of its impact, the protectorates are the one change which I think has genuinely made the game a worse experience.
Right off the bat, they don't serve any purpose that a vassal couldn't do previously. In a perfect world, any tech level would be able to either vassalize OR make a protectorate out of a conquered/released country. Why not give both distinct advantages and disadvantages that the player would have to pick over the other? Instead, we're stuck with an arbitrary and ironclad system that doesn't reflect history very well either.
Furthermore, there's the fact that protectorates are quite possibly the most unbreakable sort of diplomatic relationship in the game. You can't force release protectorates in peace, nor do they ever seem to rebel from their owner's sphere. Instead, you're stuck with a more-or-less unattackable state that neither benefits the owner very much while at the same time being restricted from expansion.
The fact that they can't be annexed is perhaps worst of all, because then you get to experience the constant 'fun' of Russia blocking itself off from expanding eastward because it thought turning every horde into a protectorate was a brilliant idea. Or the equally-likely occurrence of the Ottomans turning all of the Persian hordes into protectorates and not only blocking its eastward expansion, but also completely eliminating the chance of a rival Persia forming.
The fact that colonial nations side with their native protectorates over their overlords is just nothing short of farcical. You'd think Paradox would have caught something this ridiculous in beta testing, considering how much time and effort they spent making and promoting the new colonial mechanics.
In conclusion, either scrap the protectorate system until something workable can be made out of it, or patch the more broken parts of it soon so it at least isn't a gamebreaking 'feature.'
Right off the bat, they don't serve any purpose that a vassal couldn't do previously. In a perfect world, any tech level would be able to either vassalize OR make a protectorate out of a conquered/released country. Why not give both distinct advantages and disadvantages that the player would have to pick over the other? Instead, we're stuck with an arbitrary and ironclad system that doesn't reflect history very well either.
Furthermore, there's the fact that protectorates are quite possibly the most unbreakable sort of diplomatic relationship in the game. You can't force release protectorates in peace, nor do they ever seem to rebel from their owner's sphere. Instead, you're stuck with a more-or-less unattackable state that neither benefits the owner very much while at the same time being restricted from expansion.
The fact that they can't be annexed is perhaps worst of all, because then you get to experience the constant 'fun' of Russia blocking itself off from expanding eastward because it thought turning every horde into a protectorate was a brilliant idea. Or the equally-likely occurrence of the Ottomans turning all of the Persian hordes into protectorates and not only blocking its eastward expansion, but also completely eliminating the chance of a rival Persia forming.
The fact that colonial nations side with their native protectorates over their overlords is just nothing short of farcical. You'd think Paradox would have caught something this ridiculous in beta testing, considering how much time and effort they spent making and promoting the new colonial mechanics.
In conclusion, either scrap the protectorate system until something workable can be made out of it, or patch the more broken parts of it soon so it at least isn't a gamebreaking 'feature.'
All of this is true, but still doesn't even touch on how broken long-range mid-war protectorate deals from a party not even involved in the war can completely shatter the game into itty bitty pieces of BS, bit sized so people don't even have to chew it before they swallow.
Is your opponent in MP playing muscovy? Go ahead and protectorate his horde targets mid war. New world colonials a problem? Protectorates. Preventing Ming from expanding, if ever not in AI hands? Protectorates. Derp.
And yes, that you can't force-release them in wars when you *can* force-release nations that NO LONGER EXIST smacks of nonsense that I would love to see defended with rational logic
.
They should make vassals tech up quicker, and once they reach the point where they would stop being a protectorate or whatever, they become a westernized colonial state. And the hordes should definitely not be part of the protectorate model
Heh...To add to that; this is one game where I do not expect a lot of trouble from Russia.
Yeah that has got to be a bit of a frustration for them.