AI IS SO BROKEN (still...)

[ETAIPOS]

So I was having a happy democratic Belgium game. Everything was going great, Germans were crashing against my army and forts and were massacred (20-1 K-D ratio). Then AI decided to make things interesting. Allies pulled troops from every other frontier, first North Africa (which I managed to reinforce with my troops and push Axis back) and then Alpine front and finally Maginot line to pack my defense line (which was holding perfectly fine before) with something like 50+ divisions. Obvious result was total collapse of entire defense of France...

My front - some places have lvl10 forts.

Belgian counteroffensive in french N Africa:

And THAT is how my awesome allies are doing. And yes, that's one of mine railway guns supporting alpine front...

 

[Adonnus100]

I just started playing this again, to see if the AI was any better. Glad things have stayed the same since 2016 Wonder what the devs have been doing in this time.

Look on the bright side, the German AI is suicidal to a level that would make even Douglas Haig's eyes water. So the bad ai is a positive for you too.

 

[Star Seeker]

So I was having a happy democratic Belgium game. Everything was going great, Germans were crashing against my army and forts and were massacred (20-1 K-D ratio). Then AI decided to make things interesting. Allies pulled troops from every other frontier, first North Africa (which I managed to reinforce with my troops and push Axis back) and then Alpine front and finally Maginot line to pack my defense line (which was holding perfectly fine before) with something like 50+ divisions. Obvious result was total collapse of entire defense of France...

My front - some places have lvl10 forts.
View attachment 866164

Belgian counteroffensive in french N Africa:
View attachment 866166



And THAT is how my awesome allies are doing. And yes, that's one of mine railway guns supporting alpine front...
View attachment 866165

You can block their supply if you don't want them to screw over your own defense line

I just started playing this again, to see if the AI was any better. Glad things have stayed the same since 2016 Wonder what the devs have been doing in this time.

Look on the bright side, the German AI is suicidal to a level that would make even Douglas Haig's eyes water. So the bad ai is a positive for you too.

Look, I get saying that the AI is bad and flawed, but saying it's the same since 2016 is just factually wrong and so is saying the devs have done nothing

It's far from ideal, mind, but I don't see what you're trying to say here

 

[Jack65]

I just started playing this again, to see if the AI was any better. Glad things have stayed the same since 2016 Wonder what the devs have been doing in this time.

Look on the bright side, the German AI is suicidal to a level that would make even Douglas Haig's eyes water. So the bad ai is a positive for you too.

Unfortunately since the original AI coder left there is no replacement - which means every new AI improvement doesnt build on existing logic but always invents the wheel again. There is no cohesion in AI code. For example, LAR AI stuff was extremely customizeable, while the AI for NSB stuff is super super basic and not changeable for modders (it can even be considered broken)


And lets not talk about AIs "handling" of supplies. Its atrocious. Its AVERAGING the supply of the entire army, and doesnt account for supply in unit positions at all. Worked more or less before, but with NSB supplies its just inherently flawed now

 

[parnis]

Does the "Expert AI 4.0" mod in the Steam Workshop address any of these problems? I have it, but I don't have enough experience in single-player to tell.

 

[Jack65]

Does the "Expert AI 4.0" mod in the Steam Workshop address any of these problems? I have it, but I don't have enough experience in single-player to tell.

Its a massive upgrade yes. But even they are unable to work around some hardcoded limitations, like AI Supply Management

 

[Arheo]

Unfortunately since the original AI coder left there is no replacement

If you dislike something or have opinions on it, that's cool. However, don't just make stuff up to support your argument. I have low tolerance for that.

 

[Jack65]

Well im glad if theres a replacement now

 

[Adonnus100]

You can block their supply if you don't want them to screw over your own defense line

Look, I get saying that the AI is bad and flawed, but saying it's the same since 2016 is just factually wrong and so is saying the devs have done nothing

It's far from ideal, mind, but I don't see what you're trying to say here

Right, well I haven't been following the whole story. I just ran a test game as Germany in 1939 to see if the ai had gotten any better. I found the Polish ai to be almost completely passive. It would simply sit in clumps and do nothing, even when there were gaps in my frontline. The darkest hour AI is my favourite HOI ai, it is not completely brilliant but makes up for it in being ruthlessly exploitative. One gap in your front line and they will immediately pour through like there is no tomorrow. So that is always what I compare the other HOI AI's to.

 

[--Yigito123--]

Right, well I haven't been following the whole story. I just ran a test game as Germany in 1939 to see if the ai had gotten any better. I found the Polish ai to be almost completely passive. It would simply sit in clumps and do nothing, even when there were gaps in my frontline. The darkest hour AI is my favourite HOI ai, it is not completely brilliant but makes up for it in being ruthlessly exploitative. One gap in your front line and they will immediately pour through like there is no tomorrow. So that is always what I compare the other HOI AI's to.

The developers specifically took steps to prevent that from happening over the years, since with that behavior you can easily exploit the AI's eagerness to encircle and destroy them. Making the French pour their entire army into the Rhineland to encircle all of it was a pretty popular move in SP. Maybe it's a better strategy in Darkest Hour with the fewer number of provinces and the different logistics system, but it's a terrible move in HoI4 unless you have an overarching plan and specific destinations in mind. Doubly so with the new logistics system in NSB.

 

[ETAIPOS]

You can block their supply if you don't want them to screw over your own defense line

It helps, but only a bit, as they can draw supply from dutch and closest french supply dumps, but it at least reduced amount of divisions moved from other important fronts.

I managed to salvage that save by going back few months, training few new divisions and then sending them to Maginot (4) and Alpine (6) frontlines. I also sent one div to Corsica, to save defense there. Eleven divisions is a big thing for Belgium, but at least I stabilized the front until US divisions arrived to plug the holes (that allowed me to reposition units and launch offensive of my own )

 

[Sourlol]

Is the ai a problem? Or is Belgium being having a path to unilaterally hold off the Germans the problem?

 

[Iskulya]

The AI has improved in a lot of respects massively since launch. I still remember playing this game in the fall of 2017 and the German AI would still relentlessly suicide its troops until all of its divisions were down to like 25% strength.

I found that just by invading Brittany with about a dozen divisions as Britain and holding it, you could bleed the Germans dry of equipment in 1940. It was pretty insane. I never see Germany do anything like that anymore.

There's still plenty of areas where the AI is weak, and where it is likely to never improve. The ability to actually effectively micromanage and use armor to create pincers and pockets stands out. The AI's ability to coordinate the movement of troops overseas and orchestrate a real naval campaign also seem like something that is 'unfixable', although I suspect it could probably be improved over where it is now.

I have found that NSB really has improved the AI's behavior in regards to supply.. but it was a low bar to pass given what the game was before hand.