Ai is developing too much now?

[Vin55]

So I recently playe some slow games as Bavaria and Lippe for the achievments. So I played in the Reich and what I saw was that also outside of the Hre the ai has money and they spam development. Which frankly is good because now you will also have late game enemies. They will have mercs only but no debt so I am fine with that atm.
The real problem comes with you government capacity. It is too low/the base of it. I mean the British empire the Ottoman the Mughal the QIng, you name it in EU4 time frame there where giant empires.
So I find it a bit silly that withouth the spam of Town building and this government capacity building you can hardly control germany in 1720. (I was playing mostly withouth them because I could nit be bothered to play with them)
I would either make it so that an empire increases the limit by quite a lot or you get faster more limit. Aditionally you could increase the base limit somewhat.
What are your ideas on that?

 

[Sidolowka]

I would either make it so that an empire increases the limit by quite a lot

Being an Empire already gives you +400 GC, although I do admit it should probably scale better. I think Government Ranks should provide GC multipliers, not flat increases; currently being an Empire in 1444 gives exactly the same GC as being an Empire in 1820, which is rather unrealistic. The base GC should be increased, while different government ranks would provide different multiplers (E.G. Duchies providing x1.0 GC, Kingdoms giving x1.5 and Empires giving x2.0, numbers may be tweaked) This means that the general timeline of GC would look like this:

Year/Rank	Base	Duchy	Kingdom	Empire
1444	300	300	450	600
1630	750	750	1125	1500
1820	2000	2000	3000	4000

Empires start out with the same GC cap, while Duchies have a bit more leeway with their GC. Late-game would also involve far less 'Delete conscription centre, build townhouse, delete drydock, build townhouse, delete impressment office, build townhouse, ad infinitum'.

what I saw was that also outside of the Hre the ai has money and they spam development.

The AI is certainly using its mana much more effectively this patch. Been seeing a lot more 30+ dev provinces throughout the world, even in Sub-saharan Africa and the New World sometimes.

(Pictured: My PU Aragon culture converting Salerno to Sicilian, an accepted culture, after dev-ing it to 22 dev.)

 

[Battlex]

So I recently playe some slow games as Bavaria and Lippe for the achievments. So I played in the Reich and what I saw was that also outside of the Hre the ai has money and they spam development. Which frankly is good because now you will also have late game enemies. They will have mercs only but no debt so I am fine with that atm.
The real problem comes with you government capacity. It is too low/the base of it. I mean the British empire the Ottoman the Mughal the QIng, you name it in EU4 time frame there where giant empires.
So I find it a bit silly that withouth the spam of Town building and this government capacity building you can hardly control germany in 1720. (I was playing mostly withouth them because I could nit be bothered to play with them)
I would either make it so that an empire increases the limit by quite a lot or you get faster more limit. Aditionally you could increase the base limit somewhat.
What are your ideas on that?

No! No! No!
Just increase gov capacity, you have no use for gov reform once you've maxxed out reforms so why not use it for that. Building Court houses and having to manually build up infrastructure for an empire is perfectly acceptable.
The ai devving stops hre minors with 6/6/6 being the first to techs when everything else about them is backwards. Also bear in the mind as well as the missions from the diet, lots of hre minors have sections of the mission tree that ask you to dev up.
You can also rule through vassals, marches, and client states, you don't have to have them your colour

 

[swagmeister]

No! No! No!
Just increase gov capacity, you have no use for gov reform once you've maxxed out reforms so why not use it for that. Building Court houses and having to manually build up infrastructure for an empire is perfectly acceptable.
The ai devving stops hre minors with 6/6/6 being the first to techs when everything else about them is backwards. Also bear in the mind as well as the missions from the diet, lots of hre minors have sections of the mission tree that ask you to dev up.
You can also rule through vassals, marches, and client states, you don't have to have them your colour

Except it doesn't. They still spend hundreds of extra points on tech every single time. I still get beaten to rushed techs with 50% tech reduction. The AI just weighs innovativeness too much.

 

[Battlex]

Except it doesn't. They still spend hundreds of extra points on tech every single time. I still get beaten to rushed techs with 50% tech reduction. The AI just weighs innovativeness too much.

They do it less than before I find

 

[Orioniys]

AI can't use summon the diet button, and it kinda make sense. If something was fixed it's hard coded power spending logic.

 

[Vin55]

What is your point in rushing tech innovation at a hundred? Usless!
My point is a different one. I meant the scaling is off. You should get way more admin efficency in the endgame, maybe more reforms with it, you should be able to control germany as Prussia without a malus or special building which you cannot atm.
Also it is about fun and immersion. if there where no building slot limitations that would be great, than I would spam court houses everywhere, but atm manpower is important as mercs are well not that good. Also you need money. In games where you are not in India or close to a major trade node. So you go manufacturies and workshops. Early game churches. So you will have an opportunity cost. The ai developing is also fine I dont mind, but in the end you need to have a realistic mechanic to hinder bloobing (which ofc no one cares about really, good player will always be able to conquer the world but well some people where complainging about)
But if I am playing a relaxed game I should not be needing those buildings.

 

[Sidolowka]

Prussia

Ah I see your problem. Normally by the time you form Germany (Usually in the late 17th century because Admin Tech 20 is available from 1661), you should have 1550 GC (Base+Empire+L'etat c'est moi+Admin Tech 20); Germany proper, excluding Austria and Switzerland, has around 600~700 dev in 1444, which means you should have plenty of GC for the entirety of the HRE and a bit more.

However, Prussia gets an absolutely massive -50% GC cap in their tier 1 government reform, meaning that you'd have 775 GC instead. Considering how the HRE AI loves developing, and how there are multiple events that boost development, you'd be hard pressed even owing three quarters of Germany proper as states, nevermind Switzerland and Austria. I'd honestly recommend ditching the Prussian government late game, go revolutionary or something. The 50% GC is way too crippling, and it's not like you're gonta lose out army-wise to anybody if you've formed Germany.

no building slot limitations that would be great

I'd honestly like this too, but the potential of spamming Manufactory+Counting House on every single province would be ridiculous. You could easily wring out +1 ducat monthly from a 3 dev TC'ed province in Siberia, if that puts it into perspective.

Perhaps Courthouse/Townhalls could share a slot with Universities? I.E. if a province does not have a University it would let you build a Townhall without taking up any building spaces, but if it does it would take up 1 slot as normal.

 

[holyvigil]

So I recently playe some slow games as Bavaria and Lippe for the achievments. So I played in the Reich and what I saw was that also outside of the Hre the ai has money and they spam development. Which frankly is good because now you will also have late game enemies. They will have mercs only but no debt so I am fine with that atm.
The real problem comes with you government capacity. It is too low/the base of it. I mean the British empire the Ottoman the Mughal the QIng, you name it in EU4 time frame there where giant empires.
So I find it a bit silly that withouth the spam of Town building and this government capacity building you can hardly control germany in 1720. (I was playing mostly withouth them because I could nit be bothered to play with them)
I would either make it so that an empire increases the limit by quite a lot or you get faster more limit. Aditionally you could increase the base limit somewhat.
What are your ideas on that?

I highly doubt that holding Germany would be tough in 1720s.

I am austria in 1600s and control France, Austria, Hungary, and the Balkans just fine.

 

[Xinkc]

The real problem comes with you government capacity. It is too low/the base of it. I mean the British empire the Ottoman the Mughal the QIng, you name it in EU4 time frame there where giant empires.

Being an empire does give a fairly sizeable +400 governing capacity.

So I find it a bit silly that withouth the spam of Town building and this government capacity building you can hardly control germany in 1720. (I was playing mostly withouth them because I could nit be bothered to play with them)

There are other tools for handling governing capacity. Each estate a nation has can give a sweet +100 base governing capacity. You can also get +25% governing capacity from Admin ideas.

I would either make it so that an empire increases the limit by quite a lot or you get faster more limit. Aditionally you could increase the base limit somewhat.

Being an empire already gives you +400 governing capacity. That's the highest amount of base increase you can get from a single source. The next biggest is the +300 from the government reform Celestial Empire.

The game also gives you another way to increase your base governing capacity. All those eventual unspent government reform points can give you +25 governing capacity a click. The price increases each time, but it's such a small increase that you can get a couple hundred more fairly quickly.

Perhaps Courthouse/Townhalls could share a slot with Universities? I.E. if a province does not have a University it would let you build a Townhall without taking up any building spaces, but if it does it would take up 1 slot as normal.

At that point, you might as well give Universities +2 building slots.

 

[RobbieAB]

However, Prussia gets an absolutely massive -50% GC cap in their tier 1 government reform, meaning that you'd have 775 GC instead. Considering how the HRE AI loves developing, and how there are multiple events that boost development, you'd be hard pressed even owing three quarters of Germany proper as states, nevermind Switzerland and Austria. I'd honestly recommend ditching the Prussian government late game, go revolutionary or something. The 50% GC is way too crippling, and it's not like you're gonta lose out army-wise to anybody if you've formed Germany.

So the argument is Prussia should be able to build a modern Germany effectively without investing in the structures of a modern state (courthouses, town halls, and state houses)?

 

[Big Bad France]

Prussia has a big governing capacity malus with their government type. Their experience is a lot more restricted than everyone else's. You can gain a lot of GC by switching government types.

 

[Atlanteax]

Yes, the AI is definitely spending too much on development. Should save to spend on tech even with a 100% (2 institutions) penalty.

I hate running into 4 10 4 provinces or a 12 13 7 province that is a desert type in some obscure location that otherwise would had been 2 2 2 if not for a single province tag sitting on it as a capital for 100+ years.

AI should only develop if it literally at max mana points for the type and unable to purchase technology.

Perhaps a better solution would be to require a combination of gold and mana to develop. That will ensure tiny nations do not ‘magically’ create metropolises and large rich non European nations can still dedicate a province to institution spawning (more likely to involve a province that would plausibly be a metropolis).

 

[Xetfield]

Maybe the main reason for this are new missions from estates.

 

[Vin55]

It was not that bad before when the ai was in debt spiral so could be that it increases the development of all cities by quite a lot. Austia starts with its provinces at roughly 10 development when you conquer them by 1650 they are all over 20 (I mena the vienna state and the one below).
Also to the guys up there yeah you can go for the 3 more from estate but you will loose them later in the age of absolutism. Also building courthouses is just booring as mechanic the same with the new manufacturies. And spamming mannufacturies is already the meta on increased money. The only reason why you dont have money problems in later stages of the game is when you do a wc you also build them for your colonial empire. Greatly increasing your trade revenue. If you dont force with england you will have an income of 100 from trade in the 1550 if you take all of holland even more...
But my main point was that it is too much development, also with more provinces you will have more to conquer now. The new mechanic is just stopping me from developing anything but my capital state if I where to play effincently. I have conquered the map several times already with all kinds of nations, but even state corruption was less of a hassle, than to look into each province, delete anything but workshop and manufactury (barracks) and then build state house and manufactury. Which is another step added, where you now need to look into each state sea if their is grain or fish and build it there.

 

[Orioniys]

Maybe the main reason for this are new missions from estates.

Yet again Summon the Diet button is disabled for AI, all this estate agendas have fairly creative tasks and with current AI tech it's nearly impossible to teach AI how to achieve objective in chosen agenda.
The same argument applies to mission tries.

 

[gigib]

Maybe paradox should add option of no dev ai to very easy settings so you can easily paint. Also, please make achievements available for very easy.

 

[Orioniys]

It was not that bad before when the ai was in debt spiral so could be that it increases the development of all cities by quite a lot. Austia starts with its provinces at roughly 10 development when you conquer them by 1650 they are all over 20 (I mena the vienna state and the one below).
Also to the guys up there yeah you can go for the 3 more from estate but you will loose them later in the age of absolutism. Also building courthouses is just booring as mechanic the same with the new manufacturies. And spamming mannufacturies is already the meta on increased money. The only reason why you dont have money problems in later stages of the game is when you do a wc you also build them for your colonial empire. Greatly increasing your trade revenue. If you dont force with england you will have an income of 100 from trade in the 1550 if you take all of holland even more...
But my main point was that it is too much development, also with more provinces you will have more to conquer now. The new mechanic is just stopping me from developing anything but my capital state if I where to play effincently. I have conquered the map several times already with all kinds of nations, but even state corruption was less of a hassle, than to look into each province, delete anything but workshop and manufactury (barracks) and then build state house and manufactury. Which is another step added, where you now need to look into each state sea if their is grain or fish and build it there.

You complaining about governing capacity, but somehow AI developing is an issue. The tall playstyle was ridiculously strong for a long time, while AI was in lobotomised state, and to some degree AI is still in that state. I'm really wondering how someone could still push power fantasy argument, while looking at the current state of the game.
As a reminder current patch fixed barely anything, it's probably still very easy to get majority of the achievements.

 

[Vohen]

So the complaint is that GC is hard to manage if you don't use one of the main management tools?
And no, "because I couldn't be bothered by it" is not a valid argument, perhaps you could make a point for improving the macro builder to make the process more efficient (including a building deletion macro, and displaying info on GC when building town halls and courthouses), but that's about it.

 

[Vin55]

You complaining about governing capacity, but somehow AI developing is an issue. The tall playstyle was ridiculously strong for a long time, while AI was in lobotomised state, and to some degree AI is still in that state. I'm really wondering how someone could still push power fantasy argument, while looking at the current state of the game.
As a reminder current patch fixed barely anything, it's probably still very easy to get majority of the achievements.

Well atm you can get some way easier, but ai is building up if you let them. Also defender of faith creates ww1 early on. So it is more messy than anything. But more fun than pre patch. I have done a few of the new ones like Lippe and the BAvarian one and they where very toxic because of how Austria is so good if they get Burgundy...