Wonder how much time they have to fix stuff before Monday? Or at least some temporary fixes.
AI incapable of defense - seems to be a very, very big issue
- Thread starter Ricox
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This is exactly the problem.
The Ai can't handle multiple fronts.
A good ai would have left 1 or 2 divisions in each province on the maginot line, then it would deal with communists with the rest of it's army.
The AI in it's current state is just useless, because multi front wars are inevitable in the game.
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I think the priorities for the AI were just screwed because the front with the commies was just next to Paris (vp) and losing that would mean game over. So maybe the weights for the AI over-reacted. And because Germany was controlled by player, he naturaly exploited that to victory.
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No, not really. They had enough spare troops at the border with the communists.
France has at least 53 divisions (clarification - 53 divisions in MAINLAND EUROPE, not counting all colonial etc. troops) at the start of the game, they had maybe maximum 10 or so on the German & Italian borders from what I remember. Look at the communist troops in the next episode. The French heavily overgarrisoned the border with commies and left the most vital Maginot Line wide open.
The communists would not have taken anything, if you saw the panzer division pushing you saw how many spare divisions France had in strategic reserve against a non-enemy (due to how weak it was). The AI failed spectacularly, it needs to be fixed. It's a problem. It cannot be justified in any way because everything points to the massive flaws in the AI.
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Times of crisis are an ideal time to create the conditions for a civil war. In this scenario, I could see the Communists revolting over what they see as the government having lead the French into an ill-advised war. Collapsing fronts in WWI didn't prevent uprisings in Russia or Germany, after all.
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Not to be taken offensively, but so many of you are missing the point.
Saying the AI is doing this on "purpose" or "role-playing" or somehow this is part of a "grand strategy" is flat-out incorrect.
If you actually watched the video, you would notice that when he attacked the Maginot line (in the areas that were defended) his units did essentially 0 damage. The penalties were severe: -110% fort penalty, -60% river crossing penalty, -30% terrain penalty, etc. All the AI needed to do was put 1 division on each Maginot Line province to defend it. Thats it. It could then divert all its other forces to deal with the civil war.
The AI wasn't being "smart" by trying to wipe out the communists first and ignoring the Germans. This wasn't a "simulation" of WW2 mistakes that countries made. This is simply a programming error. I can't understand how people defend the AI so much.
Saying France didn't have enough forces is a joke. France literally had divisions lying around doing nothing. Divisions that were not moving, not on the border with the commies, just standing around middle France. Why couldn't the AI divert these to the line? Watch the video and count how many divisions were just standing around as Magnus moves through France freely with his panzer divisions.
To make this abundantly clear. All the AI had to do was leave 1 guy with a rifle on the Line. It could be a guy without a weapon, he still would have held the Germans back because of the fortifications.
Sorry if this comes across as rude. Having played HOI 2 and 3 for hundreds of hours makes me want HOI4 to be as polished as possible. I actually feel bad bashing the AI because I know the devs put in a lot of hard hours working. It just seems the game could have used a few more weeks of testing and polishing.
Edit: Just in case some of you were too lazy to watch the second video at 31 minutes, here is France when Germany declares war. Note that France is not involved in any civil war. Mainland France isn't occupied by any threat.
Saying the AI is doing this on "purpose" or "role-playing" or somehow this is part of a "grand strategy" is flat-out incorrect.
If you actually watched the video, you would notice that when he attacked the Maginot line (in the areas that were defended) his units did essentially 0 damage. The penalties were severe: -110% fort penalty, -60% river crossing penalty, -30% terrain penalty, etc. All the AI needed to do was put 1 division on each Maginot Line province to defend it. Thats it. It could then divert all its other forces to deal with the civil war.
The AI wasn't being "smart" by trying to wipe out the communists first and ignoring the Germans. This wasn't a "simulation" of WW2 mistakes that countries made. This is simply a programming error. I can't understand how people defend the AI so much.
Saying France didn't have enough forces is a joke. France literally had divisions lying around doing nothing. Divisions that were not moving, not on the border with the commies, just standing around middle France. Why couldn't the AI divert these to the line? Watch the video and count how many divisions were just standing around as Magnus moves through France freely with his panzer divisions.
To make this abundantly clear. All the AI had to do was leave 1 guy with a rifle on the Line. It could be a guy without a weapon, he still would have held the Germans back because of the fortifications.
Sorry if this comes across as rude. Having played HOI 2 and 3 for hundreds of hours makes me want HOI4 to be as polished as possible. I actually feel bad bashing the AI because I know the devs put in a lot of hard hours working. It just seems the game could have used a few more weeks of testing and polishing.
Edit: Just in case some of you were too lazy to watch the second video at 31 minutes, here is France when Germany declares war. Note that France is not involved in any civil war. Mainland France isn't occupied by any threat.
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Yeah, what most people defending the AI here are ignoring that in the second video the French left the Maginot Line completely undefended in the face of a massive German garrison. There is clearly something wrong with the AI assigning troops to multiple fronts.
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The second video is a cut just before the French disappear from the Maginot Line. It seems to me to hit the menu and it has changed its checksum.
25:17 change
25:17 change
Look, this is all speculation. Yes, you have video evidence of some of the actions and choices of the AI. Does that mean you are correct that it is broken...no...does that means then that the AI is perfect and should not be worked...no.
You have about 4 days. If you are so concerned cancel the preorder and wait for the reviews. Or don't play it and then give your thoughts when you have play a few games.
No need to keep hand wringing now.
You have about 4 days. If you are so concerned cancel the preorder and wait for the reviews. Or don't play it and then give your thoughts when you have play a few games.
No need to keep hand wringing now.
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Are you kidding me? This is not speculation, this can be seen in EVERY SINGLE gameplay video. INCLUDING THE STREAM BY PARADOX DEVELOPERS.
I don't understand why are you defending this when it's so obviously broken. There is not a single doubt about it. Something like this just does not "accidentally" happen over so many games to so many different players, essentially in every single scenario where the same circumstances apply.
Does it mean that I'm correct in that the AI is clearly broken when it abandons the Maginot Line in favor of overprioritizing a front with communists that are significantly weaker and waste its troops in strategic reserve against a weak enemy when it has two major powers invading it and barely any forces facing it? Yes, that does mean that. The AI is broken. I'm sorry, but it's past the stage of "oh, it might just be an one-off thing" now with all the press videos showing the facts.
It cannot possibly be speculation when there's obvious video evidence. That's not what speculation is. We have concrete evidence.
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well I just watched a german youtube video where the italian ai marched with 30 divisions to the northern sea, there they boarded transports and sailed through the british channel , through the atlantik to their colonies in somalia - while at war with france and gb .... =(
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You are 100% right.
I wonder who in their right mind would defend such a poor move from the AI. It is clear that there is something broken in the program atm. I just watched the 2nd video and it is even worse there. I wonder what's so hard about programming the AI to garrison border forts with at least 1 division at all times...
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I do not want to defend for the AI, it's just a bunch of scripts after all. But I'm always more curious about why is certain stuff happening.
I think the "threat weights" or whatever they are called need adjustments, so the AI does not overprioritize something and completely neglect something else. Judging by some twitch streams I was watching whole afternoon, the AI could also be more agressive and flexible when it's attacking on fronts. Too many times it seems that it "waits" for "perfect" time to attack which seems like it does only sitting there, because it probably wants to minimize losses.
But, I'm confident it will be tweaked eventually, although proper balancing may take months of gameplay input from players.
I think the "threat weights" or whatever they are called need adjustments, so the AI does not overprioritize something and completely neglect something else. Judging by some twitch streams I was watching whole afternoon, the AI could also be more agressive and flexible when it's attacking on fronts. Too many times it seems that it "waits" for "perfect" time to attack which seems like it does only sitting there, because it probably wants to minimize losses.
But, I'm confident it will be tweaked eventually, although proper balancing may take months of gameplay input from players.
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We are paying customers and not beta testers...
I mean a bugs are expected, maybe even poor performance is, but something major like this is not acceptable in a game release. PDS has a QA team, they also have closed beta testers so I would assume that they could balance such a basic element of the game by release.
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Bad AI in a Paradox game, shocker. Hopefully it will be more enjoyable for me than stellaris is i do not wanna have to wait for HOI4's "Asimov" patch to enjoy it.
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Paradox need to invest in the AI department if they want to keep customers. It's probably the largest thing holding them back.
Nothing will change, they never change stuff before launch from what you see in thses embargo previews. What you see is what you will get. AI is so delicate to program that it needs extensivt testing. Don't expect major changes first week. Maybe first month if you are lucky.
Nothing will change, they never change stuff before launch from what you see in thses embargo previews. What you see is what you will get. AI is so delicate to program that it needs extensivt testing. Don't expect major changes first week. Maybe first month if you are lucky.
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So whats the point of even giving copies out to youtubers? All the problems will be exposed and people will just cancel pre-orders. And don't get me started about giving copies to youtube bro's who know nothing of history and don't understand how to encircle units....
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Hype. Can't you tell the buzz it's generating on social media? It's mostly about getting the launching game out there in the face of potential customers. The number who cancel pre-orders is likely completely negligible. Most people aren't good enough gamers to be able to perceive dumb ai moves anyway so I doubt there will be any cancelled pre-orders. However there will most likely be a lot of whining on the forums the week of the launch.
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I think you should calm down a bit - if they are working on correcting AI, we won't see improvement earlier than with a 1st day patch, or possibly later, if they need more testing. AI developer wasn't aware on the problem with maginot line what, a week ago? I bet they are working, but currently everyone (including reviewers who got early copy) are playing the same "old" version.
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