AI Germans lose the war in 1941

[SpaceViking]

I was playing a 1933 start game as the Soviets and it got to 1941 and the Germans attacked. Good enough. But something seemed...off. For one thing the Germans had no oil reserve after a couple months so their attacks were fitful and ineffective. And they had a LOT of units. Way more than what I remember.

So I saved the game and reloaded as the Germans. WHOA! They had multiple long queues of units for 0.1 cost. Some of the queues had been running for a while, too. There were some regular cost units mixed in. They were running a net loss of oil of almost 300/day! What the heck?

I compared some event histories of various saves and found the source in ai_ger.txt. It has some events that add a bunch of units to the German production queue with long runs for 0.1 cost. It looks like these trigger at various times (like January 1936) and after various events (like Germany attacking the Soviets). I am sure the idea is to give the AI a leg up but what it does is run them out of resources (i.e., oil).

 

[Eugenioso]

Well... yeah. That's the point. As the soviets i've run out of oil as well (being fair, i use a ton of ARM in my army mixed with standard infantry) and do have to ration it. German AI goes HARD in '41 with those tanks, but it becomes semi manageable during 42 and by 43 you're almost set for the counterattack.

 

[Celestial_Khagan]

I was playing a 1933 start game as the Soviets and it got to 1941 and the Germans attacked. Good enough. But something seemed...off. For one thing the Germans had no oil reserve after a couple months so their attacks were fitful and ineffective. And they had a LOT of units. Way more than what I remember.

So I saved the game and reloaded as the Germans. WHOA! They had multiple long queues of units for 0.1 cost. Some of the queues had been running for a while, too. There were some regular cost units mixed in. They were running a net loss of oil of almost 300/day! What the heck?

I compared some event histories of various saves and found the source in ai_ger.txt. It has some events that add a bunch of units to the German production queue with long runs for 0.1 cost. It looks like these trigger at various times (like January 1936) and after various events (like Germany attacking the Soviets). I am sure the idea is to give the AI a leg up but what it does is run them out of resources (i.e., oil).

I noticed the same problem in my games. I was playing as China, and I noticed the Germans losing the Eastern front very quickly. Too quickly, as in they couldn't even push to Kiev or Minsk, and lose the war within 2 years. I checked and it was primarily because they ran out of oil within 6 months.

And it's not just them too. Later when I joined the Allies and attacked the Soviets, they ran out of oil very quickly too within 6 months. I think the balance is very off with countries running out of oil way too quickly if they can't import it from the US.

I tried to fix it myself by changing the default critical and desired oil stockpiles, which I think are way too low, default critical was 30 days and desired was 90 days, and they waste oil too easily because of this. I don't know if that was enough to help the AI, since their consumption is so high.

 

[Eugenioso]

Again again, the germans are supposed to run out of oil really quickly. Ive seen the germans go from 110k oil to zero in literally 3 months, and that's mostly due to their higher-than-average number of armored divs/motorized running around. Even without the oil, if playing as the sov's, you are gonna be in a world of hurt for the first 6 months.

As the AI however, yes, the germans get trounced real quickly and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it. I have seen them win before, once, but i definitely think they should be buffed when playing as any other faction, either with an oil stipend event that maybe lasts all of '41 and as soon as '42 rolls out they lose it. The germans should be able to beat the sovs more often.

 

[Celestial_Khagan]

Again again, the germans are supposed to run out of oil really quickly. Ive seen the germans go from 110k oil to zero in literally 3 months, and that's mostly due to their higher-than-average number of armored divs/motorized running around. Even without the oil, if playing as the sov's, you are gonna be in a world of hurt for the first 6 months.

As the AI however, yes, the germans get trounced real quickly and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it. I have seen them win before, once, but i definitely think they should be buffed when playing as any other faction, either with an oil stipend event that maybe lasts all of '41 and as soon as '42 rolls out they lose it. The germans should be able to beat the sovs more often.

They should eventually run out of oil yes, but not in 3 months. Historically the Germans didn't run out of oil within 3 months of Barbarossa. If we want the game to at least try to achieve close to historical results without player interference, then their oil reserves should last longer and they should be able to advance farther against the Soviets before being pushed back.

And when even the Soviets run out of oil within 6 months if they can't import oil from the US, then it shows there is an issue with the game balance for oil.

Even aside from historical accuracy, it's better for gameplay balance and to keep a decent challenge for the player if the AI doesn't get gimped that easily.

 

[Altruist]

And when even the Soviets run out of oil within 6 months if they can't import oil from the US, then it shows there is an issue with the game balance for oil.

So I saved the game and reloaded as the Germans. WHOA! They had multiple long queues of units for 0.1 cost. Some of the queues had been running for a while, too. There were some regular cost units mixed in. They were running a net loss of oil of almost 300/day! What the heck?

So, is it an issue with the game balance for oil OR is it that some of the quick fixes are rather bad upto game breaking which strengthen the AI by giving it an inflated number of units high on oil usage?

For Germany, although Wehrmacht and Panzer are almost a synonymous meme, mainly due to quite successfully Nazi propaganda, in reality Panzer and even motorized infantry were rather rare (precious spearheads). The vast majority of the Wehrmacht was walking, sounds crazy but it's true. And the bulk of transportation was done either by railroad or by literally millions of horses.
The other main armies: French, British and especially Red and US army were much more motorized, though. Don't know about Italy.
Germany wasn't only lacking oil but in comparison to France, UK, USA also quite behind in the automobile/lorry industry (at least back then).

 

[Celestial_Khagan]

So, is it an issue with the game balance for oil OR is it that some of the quick fixes are rather bad upto game breaking which strengthen the AI by giving it an inflated number of units high on oil usage?

For Germany, although Wehrmacht and Panzer are almost a synonymous meme, mainly due to quite successfully Nazi propaganda, in reality Panzer and even motorized infantry were rather rare (precious spearheads). The vast majority of the Wehrmacht was walking, sounds crazy but it's true. And the bulk of transportation was done either by railroad or by literally millions of horses.
The other main armies: French, British and especially Red and US army were much more motorized, though. Don't know about Italy.
Germany wasn't only lacking oil but in comparison to France, UK, USA also quite behind in the automobile/lorry industry (at least back then).

Unless the Soviet AI also gets the artificial inflated number of units, I would say it's oil. Or perhaps given enough time in the game, the AI for all the major countries will eventually overbuild to the point where they will encounter this oil issue as well.

Perhaps the observed problem isn't only due to oil, it may just be one of the causes. The results we see where Germany falls apart too quickly is real though.

 

[Eugenioso]

The german AI, when playing as SU in WIF2 gets free units and i believe some free oil, but they will run out real quick after they DOW me. That, again, is part of the strat; survive the initial onslaught of panzer divs with full fuel for the first 3 months or so, and even then their panzer divs will still infiltrate your positions quite well. After that, its enduring until '43 or so when they run out of MP and you can begin the long grind back to Berlin.