AI France And The German Behemoth

[unmerged(34190)]

The problem with France being beaten by Prussia/Germany all the time, is that they always have an extensive empire in Africa and sometimes Asia, which the AI seems to garrison quite strongly. On the other hand Prussia/Germany has no colonies, and can thus use its entire army against the relativley small French Home Army.

 

[Lamprey]

I don't agree. Every time I play Prussia/Germany and trash AI France, there's always 50-60 divisions to encircle & crush once France mobilizes.

 

[Tai-Pan]

With the exception of one game, I havent seen Germany form at all and Prussia gets absolutly annialted by the French. But The French always seem to slip up somewhere, like get stuck ina 15 year war with Russia. You don't win a war of attrtion against Russia.

In my games its alwys either the UK finsihing first or by the end of the game the US manages to catch up. In my most recent game as Greece The US AI is half of Canada and a good portion of Mexico. Might as well be North America. Manifest Destiny Anyone?

 

[Nimic]

(after all modern England was created when a bunch of Frenchmen from Normandy came, saw, & conquered).

Actually, I believe that the people of Normandy were the close decendants of Norse Vikings that settled there, hence the name Normandy, land of the northmen or something

 

[unmerged(11647)]

But at the same time, keep in mind that during the era of Napoleon France took on, for all intents & purposes, the entire world. Everyone, together! Austria, Russia, Spain, Prussia, England, even Egypt - and France won. 5 times.

I wouldn't be so sure about the french victory over Russia. They took Moscow, but the Russians didn't surrender and in the end the Platov's cossacks were in Paris.

 

[OLDTIMER]

Hi everybody,

it sems that a lot of people here indulge in French-bashing. Most in HOI, but it percolates to here also.

Now I think that whatever the French have or have not done the living French do not deserve the spite and abuse being poured over them for something that allegedly may, or may not have happened in history. In this thread the posts have been fairly civil compared to some in HOI where our Polish friends especially have indulged in some quite outrageously abusive opinions about France and the French in general.

Let`s try to keep free of prejudice here, please. We`re in this for fun, right?

Rgds, Oldtimer

 

[Taear]

Well, after the unification, still within the Vicky timeframe, there was this little war called the World War...

Anyway, to answer your question, I believe you can change the rate of hostility in the AI files for the countries in question.

You'll find that in World War One, France declared war on Germany.
Austria declared on Serbia, Russia declared on Austria, Germany declared on Russia, France declared on Germany. Like dominoes.

Also, I agree with Oldtimer. I'm tired of seeing Americans (not so much on these boards, but definitely with american friends in IRC) bash the French, even though they owe the French for their independance. France was considered the prime military power of the age, mixing the skill of Prussian armies with the numbers of the Russian Monster (though, in lesser quantaties, of course). This is why there was such shock when Loius Napoleon managed to spectacularly lose the Franco-Prussian war in a few short months. This is one reason why the situation in every game is getting on my nerves - it's very ahistorical. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just in one game, but it's literally every single time.

And yes, to those who asked, I am playing VIP - Germany has never failed to Unify, and nor has Italy - though I have had a game where Italy totally fell to pieces. I've never seen France declare war on the Germans though. It's always Prussia/Germany who DoWs, and then proceeds to utterly trounce France. Although it's not got to the point where the french have been annexed.

This is happening in EVERY game, though. I wouldn't mind, but it means that germany is finishing on top at the end constantly - I just can't match the prestige gain of winning about 15 Great Wars, nor the Industrial Complex of France-Germany united, and it's not a lot of fun as the Netherlands to have Germany bordering you on every side...

 

[unmerged(11647)]

France was considered the prime military power of the age, mixing the skill of Prussian armies with the numbers of the Russian Monster (though, in lesser quantaties, of course)

I hope I didn't bash the French with my posts, I only try to defend Russians. But I apologise If anyone is offended by me.

Speaking about numbers as the only quality of the "Russian Monster" (not a nice term, btw):

The battle of Borodino by Moscow was the most important and the biggest battle between Napoleon's and Russian army of that time. And here are the numbers:

Russians: 115 000 infantry + 630 cannons
French: 125 000 infantry + 587 cannons.

Casualties: 44 000 Russians, 35 000 French.

The battle ended with the undecisive tactical results for both armies, and only strategic considerations forced the Russians to withdraw.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Battle-of-Borodino
----------------
Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[Taear]

Speaking about numbers as the only quality of the "Russian Monster" (not a nice term, btw):

"Monster" in this case is just another word for "Big". Like... Russian Giant. Not with any negative connotations.
And I mean more in the Vicky timeframe - plus, you have to remember that by that point in Napoleon's Russian Campaign, his men were freezing and starving, while the Russians were used to the temperatures and also had enough food to live.

 

[iain_a_wilson]

Poor leadership was what afflicted the French in the Great War (as was the case with most of the Great Powers) and a combination of poor leadership and political turmoil (and an inability of the French and the British to co-operate) led to the fiasco that was WWII.

However, prior to that (or rather, prior to the war of 1870) the French were really rather good militarily.

Even if they did let us (Scotland) down in 1513...

Oh, and for the record for whoever said it previously, the Americans did NOT rescue the French in 1918, for the allies were well on the way to winning World War I by that point. It would have dragged on a bit longer without American intervention, but they certainly didn't save the day as certain people like to boast.

As for World War II... For all those Americans out there that seem to think that they won it single handedly, you're barking up the wrong tree. It was the Soviets who won it single handedly

 

[Taear]

As for World War II... For all those Americans out there that seem to think that they won it single handedly, you're barking up the wrong tree. It was the Soviets who won it single handedly

You are utterly wrong. Stalin himself said that the Soviet army was running on Spam - all of which came from America.
As did the many trucks that the soviets used to Mechanise their armies. Without American intervention on the eastern front, the soviets would have quickly starved. As much as I hate to admit it, without them, Europe would be a Nazi state.

 

[iain_a_wilson]

You are utterly wrong. Stalin himself said that the Soviet army was running on Spam - all of which came from America.

Of course he said that - he wanted more money and arms.

As did the many trucks that the soviets used to Mechanise their armies. Without American intervention on the eastern front, the soviets would have quickly starved. As much as I hate to admit it, without them, Europe would be a Nazi state.

Nah - I don't agree at all. The Soviets were begining to turn back the tide by mid 1942 (when the Americans were still mobilising and getting their hides whupped around the Pacific by the Japanese), the war in the Med was getting sown up and plans had been drawn up for an invasion of Italy. To say that "without the Americans Europe would be a Nazi state" is nonsensical.

 

[Blackberry]

Actually, I believe that the people of Normandy were the close decendants of Norse Vikings that settled there, hence the name Normandy, land of the northmen or something

"Land of the Northmen" is what Normandy means Of course over the years these Viking people became more and more French in culture. So by the time of the invasion of England by William, they were as much French noblemen as they were the decendents of Vikings.

 

[Blackberry]

Is there a way to edit the French AI to have it keep more troops in France in the years following 1870? I am sure that why Germany has such an easy time of invading France is because only token forces are left to face the entire German army while the bulk of French troops are in Africa, or even further away in Indochina. This also would explain why I see Italy routinely get the better of France.

By the time any of those latter troops get back to defend France, the Germans are already on top of Paris and are able to get very favorible peace terms.

I guess one can also make the German AI a little less agreesive as well.

 

[Blackberry]

Of course he said that - he wanted more money and arms.



Nah - I don't agree at all. The Soviets were begining to turn back the tide by mid 1942 (when the Americans were still mobilising and getting their hides whupped around the Pacific by the Japanese), the war in the Med was getting sown up and plans had been drawn up for an invasion of Italy. To say that "without the Americans Europe would be a Nazi state" is nonsensical.

I say it was the combined effort of Britain, US, and the USSR. After all because Britain still stood that Hitler had to keep significant forces in the West when he invaded the USSR in 1941, for fear of a Brtish counterattack. All three of the big three did their share to assure victory.

 

[Darkrenown]

I say it was the combined effort of Britain, US, and the USSR. After all because Britain still stood that Hitler had to keep significant forces in the West when he invaded the USSR in 1941, for fear of a Brtish counterattack. All three of the big three did their share to assure victory.

Of course it was a joint effort, but that doesn't mean everyones effort was equal and I'd have to say it was the USSR who did the majority.

 

[unmerged(11647)]

you have to remember that by that point in Napoleon's Russian Campaign, his men were freezing and starving, while the Russians were used to the temperatures and also had enough food to live.

I have to remember you, the battle of Borodino, which I discribed, was on September, the 7th. I doubt, that the French Grande Armee was freezing.

By the way, a good leader (which Napoleon is supposed to be) must prepare his army for the weather and supply conditions in the country he invades.

Russians are also humans, they are freezing in the same way. Its only a question of the proper clothes.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

This thread is too hard to call; I can't decide if my predicition is that itl'll end up in the history forums or in the OT....

Rafiki

 

[Varyar]

You'll find that in World War One, France declared war on Germany.
Austria declared on Serbia, Russia declared on Austria, Germany declared on Russia, France declared on Germany. Like dominoes.

I think you'll have to provide a source for that statement, if you want to convince me. After having double-checked several sources, I've seen no other fact than that Germany declared war on France.

 

[iain_a_wilson]

I think you'll have to provide a source for that statement, if you want to convince me. After having double-checked several sources, I've seen no other fact than that Germany declared war on France.

July 28, 1914 11:00 am. One month after the assassination of the Austrian Archduke and his wife, almost to the minute, Austria telegrams a declaration of war to Serbia. A telegram declaring war? At first Belgrade thinks it is a hoax.

July 28, 1914 Austria declares war on Russia.

July 31, 1914 Germany issues an ultimatium to Russia to demobilze or Germany would declare war on Russia. Germany also gives France eighteen hours to declare neutrality and hand over the frontier forts of Liege and Namur in a "show of good faith". The French, in response to this, order a full mobilization.

August 1, 1914 Germany declares war on Russia.

August 2, 1914 Germany and the Ottoman Empire sign a secret alliance.

August 2, 1914 Italy declares neutrality.

August 2, 1914 Germany invades Luxembourg.

August 3, 1914 Germany declares war on France.

August 4, 1914 Britain declares war on Germany and Austria-Hungary.

August 4, 1914 German forces invade Belgium in violation of a treaty signed by Prussia to respect Belgian neutrality.

That help?