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highsis

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I think AI should sortie whenever they decide they can take on the sieging army or when the province is about to fall, free of MP charge.

As of now AIs don't use this feature at all. Was it a purely Multiplayer addition?
 

devfrost44

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I agree. AI should be able to sortie, especially if they thought they could win. It will give a more balance to the AI. I mean, if players can use it, why not the AI.
 

IIWW

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I completely forgot that there is such feature as sortie. Never used it, not even once. How do you find it?
On siege window. But it must be Yours, properly owned, not just uccupied province. I used it a few times, when there was some minor desant on one of my provinces.
 

ChildeR

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If the AI is taught to sortie it should only do it when 1) it will win the battle, even if reinforced by all adjacent units and 2) it is not starved in military points (ahead of time in tech, no MIL groups open).
 

Malefidus

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If the AI is taught to sortie it should only do it when 1) it will win the battle, even if reinforced by all adjacent units and 2) it is not starved in military points (ahead of time in tech, no MIL groups open).

This. Currently if the AI sortied based on troops besieging the actual province it would be rife for near instant captures seeing as if the sortie fails the province falls if I understand correctly.
 

Thrake

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It's been a said a while ago that AI doesn't use some of the new AoW features because it still wasn't taught to use it properly... For now. I guess you might see it happen in some later patch. Overall though, I'd say it's not a major feature, so I can live with the AI not using it. The day when it will learn about it though, playing an OPM will be such a nightmare...
 

IIWW

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Badly written question:p I was asking if you think that sortie is useful;)
:D Oh, ok. "wie findest du" :D It's a rare gramtical construction in english:)
Anyway, it is a tiny bit helpful, if You have the MP to spare. It can kill enemy army while its looting.
 

BarrosRodrigues

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It's been a said a while ago that AI doesn't use some of the new AoW features because it still wasn't taught to use it properly... For now.
That "for now" might turn out to be "forever" depending on the complexity of the feature; the way I see it the AI todo list is becoming bigger and bigger.

- AI still falls asleep
- AI can´t handle LA
- AI can´t handle land attrition
- AI can´t conserve manpower
- AI can´t carpet siege
- AI can´t deal with naval attrition therefore needs to cheat
- AI can´t manage military access properly so it does not pay for it
- AI can´t garrison colonies so it needs to cheat
- AI can´t fight rebels effectively. No wonder because many players can´t either especially when there are 25 rebel regiments in a place where all nations have a force limit of ~6 (see Wiz playing Shongai in the dev MP for more details).
- AI still can´t tell troops to board/unload the ships in the fastest and safest way possible (in a port).
- AI still can´t handle player loans so goodbye feature.
.- AI still gives away provinces to a 3rd party after winning a war and then instantly becomes hostile to that 3rd party because it wants those provinces.
- AI can´t form marches.
- AI can´t vassal feed.
- AI can´t understand that it needs province "A" to connect its capital to its colonies so it demands something else instead therefore lots of its provinces will remain with +75% LA.
- AI can´t form client states
- AI still lets its territory be sieged while it invades someplace with 0 strategic value (like the Ottomans invading the Caribbean while Anatolia is on fire)
- Ai still can´t handle leaders properly so it has to be able to assign leaders inside enemy territory and always have extra ones free of maintenance.
- AI still can´t colonize effectively therefore needs a boost to its colonial range
- AI still blockades/invades far outside its supply range without basing rights
- AI can´t handle navies properly so it needs to see more (i.e. access more information) than the player does… but to no avail because it is very easy to destroy an AI ruled fleet country with more than twice the amount of ships or simply invade it without any consquences. Why? Because the AI fleet priority is to invade/blockade instead of patrolling its coast. :/
- AI still traps itself trying to evade the player.
- AI still falls for basic traps like sending its troops across a strait into an island to either be destroyed or to have its armies stuck due to having no chance to escape.
- AI still needs to have "luck"
- The AI is so weak that rebels need to be made stronger to police player expansion.
- AI still over reacts sending everything it’s got against a 2 regiment invasion somewhere.
- AI still focus all its energy in a OPM while the real threat (ex.: Russia) is ignored.
- AI still sieges with dozens of regiments, sometimes hundreds while more dozens/hundreds are nearby protecting them while dozens of enemy provinces are waiting to be sieged.
- AI still has problems with exiled troops.
- The list continues but is simply too damn big :(
 
Last edited:

Mamluke

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Dam marco... that sure is a long list. however. with Wiz at the helm and with patch 1.9 being mostly about bug fixes. I'm confident the list will skrink.

Considering the AI does not have FOW (therefor, it knows were the enemies major armies are at). it should be able to use this feature almost perfectly.

and you guys should know. this sortie, I believe was manly desing to counter the carpet-siege stratagy. So in Multiplayer one player should NOT just put 3-4 infantry stacks all over the enemies provinces with out major risk. ( me thinks the AI almost never does this.)

Edit:
"- AI still can´t handle player loans so goodbye feature."

to be fair. Marco. why whould you accept a loan from some other AI (lets say said AI offer you one) when you could just ask (near-endless) loans from some anonyous source?(as in: buget interface) with possible better interest rates (thanks to Ideas)?

bc lets be frank hear... the main perpuse of that feature was CB farming... anyone disagree?
 
Last edited:

TheMeInTeam

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This. Currently if the AI sortied based on troops besieging the actual province it would be rife for near instant captures seeing as if the sortie fails the province falls if I understand correctly.

It's not as easy to set conditions for this as it might seem at first glance.

For example, your sortie rules would make the AI avoid using it if it were fully carpeted by 1 stacks, because each 1 stack could reinforce an adjacent province and thus it would perceive the strength per province as too high unless it had high fort levels :D.
 

Seelensturm

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The list can be continued for a long time. Many features and strategies are actually player exclusive making him the bigger cheater. Just a few examples:

- AI gets only the country specific missions, not the generic ones which hand out free stuff for every litte move you would do anyway e.g. free ADM for coring a province.
- AI doesn't focus on Power Projection, so the MP bonus at 50+ is basically player exclusive.
- AI reacts to events and diplomatic offers immediately. No raising maintenance and moving troops before rebels pop up or using +stab events when already at +3.
- No claiming thrones.
- No cheating the HRE by vassalising the majority of electors.
- Railroaded idea groups.
- No scorching earth.
- No irrelevant diplomatic treaties just to further raise opinion e.g. for diplo-vassalisation.
- No retreating from battles until morale is broken.
- No sitting idle when ally called in a war where is nothing to gain or is already a lost cause.
- ...

So the next time you feal great because you stomped the AI again - remember you are cheater!
 
Last edited:

BarrosRodrigues

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- AI doesn't focus on Power Projection, so the MP bonus at 50+ is basically player exclusive.
It is not, the power projection mechanics encourage procrastination (...) and the AI is a champion at that (...)

Edit: In fact this system had its roots in the AI baffling stupidity/fumble for selecting rivals so instead of teaching the AI to play better PDS levelled the gameplay and made stupidity a standard; the power projection is a derivate of this enlightened AI.

So the next time you feal great because you stomped the AI again - you are cheater!
That is funny, so developers put out a game with a stone cold brain-dead AI and the player is a cheater for playing well? Amazing logic
 
Last edited:

Malefidus

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It's not as easy to set conditions for this as it might seem at first glance.

For example, your sortie rules would make the AI avoid using it if it were fully carpeted by 1 stacks, because each 1 stack could reinforce an adjacent province and thus it would perceive the strength per province as too high unless it had high fort levels :D.

I agree, but let's be honest it wouldn't take long for one of the brighter sparks here to work out conditions to get the AI to sortie with enough troops to beat the garrison nearby. The insta-capture of the province means they need to get the AI right if they're going to enable it to sortie.
 

ChildeR

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It is not, the power projection mechanics encourage procrastination (...) and the AI is a champion at that (...)
Is that supposed to be a joke of some kind? The PP system encourages constant warring with your rivals, especially if you don't own Wealth of Nations (privateers could use a nerf). That's pretty much the opposite of procrastination.