AI Debt spiral

AI Debt spiral

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This thread is more than 5 months old.

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Gamergeo

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Is it still possible to talk about a 2-month bug on a DLC I BOUGHT ?

The problem is real, I don't think trying to bury it is the proper solution.
 
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grommile

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The problem is real, but there's nothing of interest left to say until an actual fix comes out.
 
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The problem is real, but there's nothing of interest left to say until an actual fix comes out.

Devs recognising the problem on this forum would be of interest to a lot of people on here, as would an ETA on the fix.
 
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zbyrne

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Maybe don't release a broken DLC which people would buy just before heading off on holidays? I might forgive them if PDX had an unassailable track record of releasing updates without any bugs or major issues, except every update has broken the game in some way. So they should have known it was coming.
 
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zbyrne

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Is it still possible to talk about a 2-month bug on a DLC I BOUGHT ?

The problem is real, I don't think trying to bury it is the proper solution.
And I am sure you have seen, but this was/is a major thread on the forums - https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...roken-for-weeks-and-its-gamebreaking.1402500/

35k views, over 400 responses. PDX must have seen this, and ought to do something, like acknowledge it, apologise and bring people back from holiday now to fix it now.

But they haven't, because they really just don't care. My advice is boycott the company, don't buy its products.
 
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grommile

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PDX must have seen this, and ought to do something, like acknowledge it, apologise and bring people back from holiday now to fix it now.
They're a video game company, not a safety- or business-critical software company.

In descending order of importance, nobody is going to die or be seriously injured, nothing is going to explode, and nobody is going to go broke, so the workers were entitled to their summer holiday and their employer had no business pressuring them to cancel their holidays or come back to work early.

Of course, at this point they are back from holiday, but at this point, the only communication from the devs that has real value is "here's a patch as a public beta; sorry it took so long". Not "we'll have a patch for you on date X" or even "the patch is with QA before it goes to public beta", "here's a patch".
 
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And I am sure you have seen, but this was/is a major thread on the forums - https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...roken-for-weeks-and-its-gamebreaking.1402500/

35k views, over 400 responses. PDX must have seen this, and ought to do something, like acknowledge it, apologise and bring people back from holiday now to fix it now.

But they haven't, because they really just don't care. My advice is boycott the company, don't buy its products.

They did acknowledge it, which you might have heard if you actually followed the thread you just linked.
One other point i have heard on that thread, which is very relevant to your suggestions, is that there are new teams being set up to deal with EU4. And since these teams aren't ready yet, it isn't actually the best idea to get other people back from their holidays.

I have also noticed that the thread has been locked for further replies, I might cynically think to let it slide away and down the forum because they don't care for it's content. If so, shame on you PDX.

Or it could actually be the unpaid Moderators. You know, the guys that are supposed to be looking after the forums. Especially when the PDX guys aren't here. And maybe they saw those negative loops (like they talked about here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/lack-of-communication.1411556/post-26804468 ), where nothing productive comes out of it, only anger, sadness and hate, and decided to forcefully stop that.
 
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Or it could actually be the unpaid Moderators. You know, the guys that are supposed to be looking after the forums. Especially when the PDX guys aren't here. And maybe they saw those negative loops (like they talked about here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/lack-of-communication.1411556/post-26804468 ), where nothing productive comes out of it, only anger, sadness and hate, and decided to forcefully stop that.

Thanks for sharing this! I agree, we should not make it harder for the moderators here (who do it in their spare time) and wait for the devs to return. But we should also keep in mind that this is a top priority issue which needs to be addressed asap.
 
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Atomcreator

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I used to run a business. Customer retention and satisfaction was the number one priority. It HAS to be if your business is of any concern to you.
This is why I am constantly bemused when any company does not at least attempt to engage with customers in all areas, at all times.
I do not care about the Swedish holidays. The internet makes Paradox's particular business global and it has been for 20-25 years. I am amazed they do not seem to realise this after all these years.
I also do not care for the ' they're not a critical business ' comments.

They are in business !!!

If they wish to STAY in business then it doesn't matter if you make covid masks or fluffy slippers. Both should be treated with EQUAL Relevance.

Solutions are so simple. Employ customer service agents in other countries, that engage with customers on social media, forums etc. I don't believe it should be up to unpaid moderators to have to step in when customers have wound themselves up to a rage.

We are talking about a multi million dollar company now. They should think and act like one.
 
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zbyrne

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They're a video game company, not a safety- or business-critical software company.

In descending order of importance, nobody is going to die or be seriously injured, nothing is going to explode, and nobody is going to go broke, so the workers were entitled to their summer holiday and their employer had no business pressuring them to cancel their holidays or come back to work early.

Of course, at this point they are back from holiday, but at this point, the only communication from the devs that has real value is "here's a patch as a public beta; sorry it took so long". Not "we'll have a patch for you on date X" or even "the patch is with QA before it goes to public beta", "here's a patch".

Sorry pal. I disagree - you release a product which you charge a premium price for that doesn't do what was advertised, then people are right to be angry. If PDX cares so much about ensuring their workers get their break (and I have no problem at all with that, they should get their break of course), then maybe don't do something like release a major expansion which many people will pay for and play on release when you are not on hand to deal with issues. Release Emperor after the break. I am not giving them a free pass for their mistake.

But you know what, this episode has made me come to the sad decision to no longer use or engage with PDX products - I have sunk more hours than I care to think into CK2 and EU4 (and spent more money than I care to count on DLCs for them), and I would call myself a fan of their games, but I am now of the opinion that they do not deserve their reputation and they increasingly come across as indifferent to its playerbase.

I hate their DLC model - I reject the suggestion that it is a way of building up the game and keeping it relevant over many years; no it's a cynical cash grab that milks its playerbase over and over (a process which they are refining to the point they now release barebones and empty games with gaps for DLC to fill later, as opposed to the less cynical prior process where they tacked actually new things on over and over).

Anyway, not wishing to derail the thread any further, I quit you PDX. I'm sad to do so, but I don't trust you anymore.
 
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I used to run a business. Customer retention and satisfaction was the number one priority. It HAS to be if your business is of any concern to you.
This is why I am constantly bemused when any company does not at least attempt to engage with customers in all areas, at all times.
I do not care about the Swedish holidays. The internet makes Paradox's particular business global and it has been for 20-25 years. I am amazed they do not seem to realise this after all these years.
I also do not care for the ' they're not a critical business ' comments.

They are in business !!!

If they wish to STAY in business then it doesn't matter if you make covid masks or fluffy slippers. Both should be treated with EQUAL Relevance.

Solutions are so simple. Employ customer service agents in other countries, that engage with customers on social media, forums etc. I don't believe it should be up to unpaid moderators to have to step in when customers have wound themselves up to a rage.

We are talking about a multi million dollar company now. They should think and act like one.

I'm not sure i understood what better Strategy you're proposing here. Or asked differently: what are the customer service agents you're speaking about supposed to do exactly?
Or what should they have done in the current predicament of EU IV ?
 

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Now they locked old thread ? Thats a new low . The summer vacation apology is not believable , dont tell me everyone left for 2 months , what kind of business it is .Next time be sure to not buy anything from them around summer as you know for sure everything they release is systematically botched and there wont be any support for it.
 
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Deliberus

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Now they locked old thread ? Thats a new low . The summer vacation apology is not believable , dont tell me everyone left for 2 months , what kind of business it is .Next time be sure to not buy anything from them around summer as you know for sure everything they release is systematically botched and there wont be any support for it.
Lol, welcome to Paradox Forums, this is nothing new and expect to see more censorship...
 
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Sorry pal. I disagree - you release a product which you charge a premium price for that doesn't do what was advertised, then people are right to be angry. If PDX cares so much about ensuring their workers get their break (and I have no problem at all with that, they should get their break of course), then maybe don't do something like release a major expansion which many people will pay for and play on release when you are not on hand to deal with issues. Release Emperor after the break. I am not giving them a free pass for their mistake.

But you know what, this episode has made me come to the sad decision to no longer use or engage with PDX products - I have sunk more hours than I care to think into CK2 and EU4 (and spent more money than I care to count on DLCs for them), and I would call myself a fan of their games, but I am now of the opinion that they do not deserve their reputation and they increasingly come across as indifferent to its playerbase.

I hate their DLC model - I reject the suggestion that it is a way of building up the game and keeping it relevant over many years; no it's a cynical cash grab that milks its playerbase over and over (a process which they are refining to the point they now release barebones and empty games with gaps for DLC to fill later, as opposed to the less cynical prior process where they tacked actually new things on over and over).

Anyway, not wishing to derail the thread any further, I quit you PDX. I'm sad to do so, but I don't trust you anymore.
9 to 1, soon it'll be 10 to none. As long as Paradox keeps expanding their playerbase, in the long run, they don't care...
 
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"We are aware of the issue. As soon as the team returns from holiday, we plan to implement a quick beta patch of any easily fixed AI problems ASAP. After that, we will begin work on a more extensive AI budget improvement patch, which we will give more information on once we get to that point. Thank you for your support and patience."

Is that really too much to ask for?
 
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Don Fluffles

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Sep 18, 2019
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"We are aware of the issue. As soon as the team returns from holiday, we plan to implement a quick beta patch of any easily fixed AI problems ASAP. After that, we will begin work on a more extensive AI budget improvement patch, which we will give more information on once we get to that point. Thank you for your support and patience."

Is that really too much to ask for?

Are you seriously not happy with "We are aware of the AI debt spiral issue. We're hoping to be able to address that problem in the next bug fix patch." ? =/
(Source: )
 
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