AI being idiotic - How to lose a League War you're winning

[Torbgoe]

Hi

I'm a bit frustrated right now, so I figured I'd share my experience, and hear if others have suffered from the same experience.

I guess most of you have played through multiple league wars. And most of the time things work quite well. But sometimes you end up with a war leader who is more stupid than you could ever imagine.

Have you ever been winning a war to such a degree that you get call for peace, but the war leader refuses to peace out?
Have you ever been in a war where the opposition peace out enemies as they go, while your side refuses to peace out nations you have thoroughly beaten?
Have you ever been in a war where each side is completely exhausted, with low war enthusiasm, where you have more than 60 % war score, but the war leader completely refuse to make peace?

Well. This was my most recent league war. I've had similar wars earlier, but this was the worst. I do not really understand how it is possible. It would be nice to see how the AI makes their decisions. It would be nice to understand why they decide to lose a war they are winning.

But in the end I guess the AI at times is just plain stupid. And that I should just take a few deep breaths before heading back into the game. The milk has been spilt, and I should not cry. But maybe I should try licking it off of the floor.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

War is hell.

 

[tip001]

Well, the AI is stupid AF so no surprise there. I am not familiar with the league war lately so cant be specific on that. In general the AI is not aiming for war goals, forts or even prioritize unsieging their own forts making war something like an unholy thing to observe. The war goal for the league war is a very simple superiority one though, so thats makes your observation even more unsettling regarding AI.
May I advice you to include a file of the game? Without Paradox will be unable to analyze.

 

[hermithill]

Are you sure that it is the war leader of your side who has refused to call for peace, and not the your enemies who refuse to make peace? There is a large malus for accepting a call for peace in league wars.

 

[Coffer]

Are you sure that it is the war leader of your side who has refused to call for peace, and not the your enemies who refuse to make peace? There is a large malus for accepting a call for peace in league wars.

Considering he went over 60% in the league war and both sides were on low enthusiasm, the leader should've already been compelled to call it. Problem is, it's a unique war yet the AI seemingly interprets it as any other. That's why I always try to either be the league leader, eliminate as many targets as possible, or if my army is anything close to Prussia's level, break the biggest enemies' spines (France, Spain, Ottomans usually) so that if the enemy league leader feels the need to peace small allies out while mine isn't, I won't be hurt as much since the main antagonists will be crippled to the point where any potential allies (often Austria) can help me kill them off. Anything else and I'd be leaving too much to chance for my liking - even the last one already comes close, but at least it's exciting and completely devastates the enemy great powers to a point where they're very easily beaten in the next war they're caught in.

I'm still not entirely sure what causes war leaders who are winning to accept peace deals. I've seen a lot of ridiculous ends, both through ending it much too early and through dragging a war on far too long, but I've also seen absolute perfection (LO sieging down Sweden's forts while myself (TO) and Riga kept killing Denmark's armies - LO peaced out at around 65% at the absolute best time imaginable, but contrary to all the ones that ended too early or too late, it was a defensive war) so I know it has the potential to not screw up.

 

[hermithill]

Considering he went over 60% in the league war and both sides were on low enthusiasm, the leader should've already been compelled to call it.

60% is not very high for a league war, due to the large malus. My question (probably poorly formulated) was more: can't it be the case that your war leader does not call for peace because ennemies would not have accepted? It's been a long time I haven't been the war leader in the league war, but I remember that it's very hard to peace out nations even with a very high individual war score.

 

[Nyrael]

That all sounds good to me. History is filled with people who were winning, but eventually ruined everything because they were stupidly stubborn.
Heck, even now we have people who ruin everything because they are stupidly stubborn.

Seeing as each AI ruler has a personality, AND traits also affect their actions, I would not be surprised if this behavior was dictated by the personality of the ruler.

 

[Coffer]

60% is not very high for a league war, due to the large malus. My question (probably poorly formulated) was more: can't it be the case that your war leader does not call for peace because ennemies would not have accepted? It's been a long time I haven't been the war leader in the league war, but I remember that it's very hard to peace out nations even with a very high individual war score.

That's 60% overall though, not with any individual nation with which you usually need all their forts. 50% should be all you need to win the war, and I've certainly won it at 60% before. Problem is, the winning AI always wants more and doesn't know when to quit. I'm fairly sure the opposing side would've been forced to accept at that point given the low enthusiasm.

That all sounds good to me. History is filled with people who were winning, but eventually ruined everything because they were stupidly stubborn.
Heck, even now we have people who ruin everything because they are stupidly stubborn.

Yeah, when I first read the OP I quite liked the turnaround. Problem is, it's definitely annoying for the player, who in a position like that should've been able to peace out had they been the leader.

 

[Torbgoe]

60% is not very high for a league war, due to the large malus. My question (probably poorly formulated) was more: can't it be the case that your war leader does not call for peace because ennemies would not have accepted? It's been a long time I haven't been the war leader in the league war, but I remember that it's very hard to peace out nations even with a very high individual war score.

You might be right. However, the main thing with the league war is the 50 value added to each country's war enthusiasm. Meaning it's hard to get them to low enthusiasm. And if they aren't low, they won't accept peace. But when they are low enthusiasm, they would even accept white peace (?). So when our side gets peaced out when they are low enthusiasm (and have some warscore against them), but my war leader won't peace out countries with low enthusiasm and -80% or more warscore against them, that is weird.

 

[Nyrael]

Yeah, when I first read the OP I quite liked the turnaround. Problem is, it's definitely annoying for the player, who in a position like that should've been able to peace out had they been the leader.

That's the risk for the player: do you gamble by joining the League War even when not the leader, or do you stay by the side as your own boss?

 

[bbqftw]

AI is probably looking for some concession that it can't get because someone else occupied it...?

 

[MrParadux]

I hate that the ai is pretty much guaranteed to peace out of a winning war after 5 years. It is frustrating.

Also the league wars are way to short. I think there should be multiple war declarations and whichever side won more should be considered the winner. This would allow for the changing of alliances and the long conflict that ravaged the countryside like it happened in the real Thirty Years War.

 

[hermithill]

However, the main thing with the league war is the 50 value added to each country's war enthusiasm.

Is this only war enthousiasm which is affected? This was changed? I am quite sure (but perhaps my memory is not so good) that there was also a -30 or something for war league in the likelihood that a call for peace is accepted. BTW until very recently I was still playing 1.19.2 (now 1.21.1), so some changes may have occurred!

Do you play in ironman? Can you switch tag?

but my war leader won't peace out countries with low enthusiasm and -80% or more warscore against them, that is weird

Well, I don't say that it is a good thing! But I'am still not sure that the reason is the greed of the war leader.

 

[Gopherbashi]

I really wish there was some option where war allies could warn each other if they're planning on peacing out. The lack of coordination can be really frustrating sometimes.

My ally is within a few points of peacing out? Give me some kind of notification so I can negotiate for everyone and not be blindsided by it.

I'm getting sick of beating myself up for an ally's war? Let me tell them so they'll be more likely to come to some kind of peace terms, rather than having me leave by myself and seeing them get crushed when I'm gone.

 

[Urgat]

That's the risk for the player: do you gamble by joining the League War even when not the leader, or do you stay by the side as your own boss?

Since I've never took a part. What can I gain by participation in the League War?

 

[hermithill]

Since I've never took a part. What can I gain by participation in the League War?

- you get a discount on mil tech for 100 yrs
- you can help (if you're christian) your faith to win in order to get the bonuses (and become emperor maybe)
- you can weaken your foes
- you can change your foes into friends in order to get good alliances

That said, I almost never join a side.

 

[Coffer]

- you get a discount on mil tech for 100 yrs
- you can help (if you're christian) your faith to win in order to get the bonuses (and become emperor maybe)
- you can weaken your foes
- you can change your foes into friends in order to get good alliances

That said, I almost never join a side.

In my experience, if you're Protestant (these days in 90% of my games I am, but I've been doing TO->Prussia a lot lately so that number's skewed) and competent enough by the time the war is about to start, you have a very high chance of becoming emperor if you win, so it's worth joining. There are only two problems, actually winning (if France and the Ottomans join the Catholic side together there will be blood) and then dealing with Austria if they themselves become Protestant, but odds are if the latter's happened then they will have blobbed a bit and thus damaged their chances so you only have to deal with frustrating RM+Alliance spammers for the most part.