AI and raiding

[Gantolandon]

The one thing bugs me in HIP is that there doesn't seem any raiding going around at all. Even the members of the German if religions are content to sit around and get penalties to their Prestige, rather than go a-viking. It's 865 now and I haven't seen a single raid or prepared invasion except the ones done by me.

Is that just my game, or a widespread issue?

 

[Sirrobert1]

Yea, the AI doesn't seem to know how to raid in my game aswel.
However, they DO raise troops and set them to raid. So ontop of being at peace, they are also paying (already higher than vanilla) upkeep for nothing

 

[zijistark]

Can't imagine this being a HIP thing, and I've seen reports of this for vanilla. You guys using EMF? The AI is definitely painfully aggressive at raiding in EMF+SWMH, at least that much I can tell you.

 

[Gantolandon]

Can't imagine this being a HIP thing, and I've seen reports of this for vanilla. You guys using EMF? The AI is definitely painfully aggressive at raiding in EMF+SWMH, at least that much I can tell you.

I'm using EMF without SWMH.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Can't imagine this being a HIP thing, and I've seen reports of this for vanilla. You guys using EMF? The AI is definitely painfully aggressive at raiding in EMF+SWMH, at least that much I can tell you.

Everything except for the portraits for me.
I've seen single county nations like Gotland (which stays alone) drive themselves into extreme dept simply because they keep troops raised without raiding

 

[Lord of Pain]

I let 10 years go by in my HIP game and there's no AI raiding. Don't know the reason, might be vanilla, have to do more testing.

EDIT-1: Verified CK2 integrity through steam, AI goes raiding regularly in vanilla. Will continue testing with different HIP configs.

EDIT-2: Reinstalled HIP with my regular config and still no raiding. Reinstalled HIP without EMF (first on the list) and raiding is back.

 

[Velorian]

Hmm I was using all HIP plugins aside from CPR (so also EMF+SWMH) I tried observing the AI for several years none of the Norse raided anyone, aside from Dublin that raided a neighbour. It seems they no longer do any sea raids, some of them were even losing prestige for being passive.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

They raid all the time with EMF ....except recently pointlessly. They wander down through Scand to my South German homelands, but forget to bring any boats. So they never get a penny for it. They did at least used to bring boats, but for some reason have stopped doing so.

Now thinking about it, I wonder if the map has bugged out, preventing use of rivers for Norse Pagans. This happened to me once.

 

[zijistark]

I let 10 years go by in my HIP game and there's no AI raiding. Don't know the reason, might be vanilla, have to do more testing.

EDIT-1: Verified CK2 integrity through steam, AI goes raiding regularly in vanilla. Will continue testing with different HIP configs.

EDIT-2: Reinstalled HIP with my regular config and still no raiding. Reinstalled HIP without EMF (first on the list) and raiding is back.

Thanks. I'll look into this ASAP.

 

[Lord of Pain]

Thanks. I'll look into this ASAP.

Switched out 00_religions.txt and confirmed it as the culprit, I don't see why that would fix it but it did. I suspect there might be more culprits as raiders don't fully loot and burn holdings (might just be an issue of small norse army sizes vs. large western garrisons), also the Norse do raids amongst themselves (which I haven't seen before) and this hampers their ability to conduct external raids.

EDIT-1: Solved it. "Allow_viking_invasion=yes" must be added to each religion that should be able to do raids because that particular line doesn't just enable invasions as a diplomatic action but is also serves the purpose of giving valid raid targets to the AI. So when a religion isn't given the invasion-line, the 'allow_looting=yes' within that religion will be passive and useless to the AI.

 

[DarkReborn]

This bug has been happening as well in both the A Game of Thrones and Lux Invicta for a long time now ( Since some time near SoA's release ). In LI, I've tweaked everything related to raiding in order to have the AI actually raid. Setting the AI raid frequency value to a lower number only causes the AI to raise it's raiders and not move them anywhere. I remember posting this on the bug report forum twice, but it probably got buried under another stuff. IIRC; ether ziji or Meneth had direct communications with the Devs, so you might want to bring this to their attention.

 

[Lord of Pain]

This bug has been happening as well in both the A Game of Thrones and Lux Invicta for a long time now ( Since some time near SoA's release ). In LI, I've tweaked everything related to raiding in order to have the AI actually raid. Setting the AI raid frequency value to a lower number only causes the AI to raise it's raiders and not move them anywhere. I remember posting this on the bug report forum twice, but it probably got buried under another stuff. IIRC; ether ziji or Meneth had direct communications with the Devs, so you might want to bring this to their attention.

See my edit, did you try giving the line "Allow_viking_invasion=yes" to each looting religion?

 

[DarkReborn]

See my edit, did you try giving the line "Allow_viking_invasion=yes" to each looting religion?

Hmmm, that did indeed fix it, it must be indeed that the AI uses the same targeting for both actions. That's an even bigger issue that should be reported to Paradox then.

 

[Lord of Pain]

Hmmm, that did indeed fix it, it must be indeed that the AI uses the same targeting for both actions. That's an even bigger issue that should be reported to Paradox then.

Yes it should be reported... *cough* not it.

 

[Sirrobert1]

This bug has been happening as well in both the A Game of Thrones and Lux Invicta for a long time now ( Since some time near SoA's release ). In LI, I've tweaked everything related to raiding in order to have the AI actually raid. Setting the AI raid frequency value to a lower number only causes the AI to raise it's raiders and not move them anywhere. I remember posting this on the bug report forum twice, but it probably got buried under another stuff. IIRC; ether ziji or Meneth had direct communications with the Devs, so you might want to bring this to their attention.

Same religion raiding was added new in one of the beta patches, to give christian tribals a chance to actually make some money

 

[Sirrobert1]

There seems to be something in vanilla aswel:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ck-Answers&p=18458771&viewfull=1#post18458771

 

[zijistark]

See my edit, did you try giving the line "Allow_viking_invasion=yes" to each looting religion?

So, some history on this: Those lines were removed for Norse (who were obviously the only that had it) in favor of enable_prepared_invasion = yes statements in title history of k_denmark (yes, I know this is weird) during the 2.2.0.x beta patch series.

If we add allow_viking_invasion = yes to every pagan/indian religion (not just vikings) that needs to raid, isn't that a bit of a problem in and of itself?

 

[Lord of Pain]

So, some history on this: Those lines were removed for Norse (who were obviously the only that had it) in favor of enable_prepared_invasion = yes statements in title history of k_denmark (yes, I know this is weird) during the 2.2.0.x beta patch series.

If we add allow_viking_invasion = yes to every pagan/indian religion (not just vikings) that needs to raid, isn't that a bit of a problem in and of itself?

Yes it is, which is why someone should report it as a bug (still not it, too lazy). A workaround would be to give it only to the Norse religion again until Paradox fixes raid targeting as an independent bool within religions.

 

[zijistark]

Yes it is, which is why someone should report it as a bug (still not it, too lazy). A workaround would be to give it only to the Norse religion again until Paradox fixes raid targeting as an independent bool within religions.

Yeah, this is fairly big, so I'm going to skip reporting it too. [I'd have to get a savegame together and proof and crap, bah. There are tons of vanilla threads about it already (like this one), so I'm not exactly worried. I'll report it in the official manner if it looks like it's not going to get addressed. In the interim, a word or two to some folks should work.]

I suppose there's no big harm in turning on viking invasions for all the pagan/indian religions. It's not like they can actually use the viking_invasion CB (or at least I'll make sure that they cannot). They just might get a confusing diplo-button that may or may not be greyed-out. I'll make a note of it in my release notes for EMF.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Having read the further comments, I see it's a problem introduced by a later Paradox patch than I'm using. With HIP and EMF, they are hitting me hard all over England, often in 3 places at once. I'm still on patch 2.1.6 [off the top of my head]. As often with a complex program, what might seem a good solution totally overlooks and breaks something else...