Ahistorical Colonisation in Demo

[unmerged(9875)]

A 30 year delay is fine IMHO. The race for colonisation in North America, for example, was quite competitive and I think other nations getting the map more than 25 years later (Note MrT said this was the fastest.

Let's not complain about it until we get to know the modifiers involved for the release version. I'm quite confident that England, not being Spain's neighbour, would probably get North American in their sights at the end of the 16th century, which would lead to colonisation at just about the right time.

Also, I for one have not really seen landlocked nations colonising. Lucky?

cheers

Hmm, England getting North America in their sights at the end of the 16th century.

Me playing Sweden had knowledge of the whole West/South Cost of Africa, huge parts of Brazil..most of the carebeian islands...most of the East Cost of the US and Canada. I also had knowledge of a couple of Japanese provinces, and a couple of Indonesian Islands. This in 1512 without having any other allies then Denmark, inside the Kalmar Union.

I did not at have the" Exploration of the New World" idea, and as far as i could see..none of my neigbours had it either.

Dont get me wrong..i love what i saw in the demo..that is, beside the rapid revealing of colonies.

 

[unmerged(18712)]

Maybe colonists shouldn't be allowed to appear at a country's court as long as it has no shore.

 

[unmerged(64527)]

That's a good idea Hungarian Lord, and would encourage people to get a sea bordering province. As I said, I'm fine with traditional and realistic countries colonizing in ahistorical areas (different than they did IRL). But, I cannot see citizens from the middle of Saxony or w/e walking all the way and then being able to sail to some far away world.

 

[unmerged(59737)]

It's a demo. It'll get fixed.

Eventually.

 

[OHgamer]

This in itself is completely disrupting.

Why is that?

The Portuguese tradeposts in places like Angola, Mozambique and Guinea end up being treated like colonies in the EU series, when for all intents and purposes the authority of the Portuguese did not extend all that far inland, and certainly not to the scale of a full EU province being under European control. Unfortunately, that is how the game is designed, so in that case if Portugal's trade posts are going to be represented that way, then other nations that did or might have the potential to be involved in the Africa trade should be represented in a similar manner in game and be able to gain colonies in Africa to represent the opening of their own trade posts.

I agree with you that there are some colonization elements that need tweaking, and from Mr T's post it looks like many of those issues will be addressed, but the goal I think should not be to have it "pre-ordained" when starting in 1453 that Portugal will be first around Africa in 75, 80 or 99% of games,or similarly the crowns of Castile & Aragon the first in the Caribbean. That may have been how things resulted in real life, but in this game all past is prologue, and whatever happens after the date you choose to start is undeterimed. You have potentials, as do the AI nations, but in terms of gameplay I think it is better that all AI nations be able to maximize their potentials rather than have their potentials limited to ensure a "more historical environment for gameplay" that can then be abused by the human player who knows the history and can use it to their advantage against the AI.

If you want to play where the Portuguese are guaranteed to be ensured to be in India and the Spanish in the Caribbean, start at a later date (1500 for ex) after the historical events have already happened and become part of the prologue to the drama you are going to play as the guiding force of the nation you choose.

 

[unmerged(41817)]

update, i randomly got discovery by event of the new world, so i had a look at the portugese and spanish have colonised...

Hispaniola for Spain and Puerto Rico for Portugal, rest is empty or native tribal nations, which is surprising looking at the rate of colonialisation by the other nations, i would expect the 2 with the perfect set up for it to have large empires by the end of the demo (1520 when i had a look).

 

[SonofWinter]

Ok, here goes.

Ideas:
1. Province is not reavealed till 150 years after it was discovered.
2. QftNW only available to nations with a seaport.
3. You start with -9 colonists per year.
4. +6 colonists per year if you have QftNW, now you are at -3 colonists per year.
5. +3 colonists per year if you own a CoT, making it base 0 colonists per year, if you have QftNW and CoT.

Just post DITO if you agree.

 

[Assos]

But you see, you are thinking inside the box. This game is based upon the What If.... think of poor Sweden.... they, to you and I are not a colonial power, but the Delaware River Valley was a colony of Sweden. Heaven forebid we see a Swedish NA empire. The whole idea is say the Swiss gained a ruler who was more dymanic in the world, moved to the Italian coast and began exploring. Or Genoa, instead of funding the voyages, they were undertaking the risks themselves. Columbus was Genoese, or rumored to be, not Spanish. This game lets you explore.

 

[Assos]

I thought you needed a seaport to colonize. I tried with Baden and it set no seacoast.

 

[unmerged(18712)]

Then.. maybe in my game Swtizerland colonized some land and then lost it's port? Can happen.

 

[Green Giant]

Can we get some pics of this supposed fantasyland colonization? I have run four full games and have not encountered anything close to what is being described with the exception of a quick colonization of Africa and Portugese colonization of NA. Both of which aren't even close to ahistorical enough to be considered fantasy. I'm talking AI Bremen in Brazil.

I can't help but feel that this is all so overblown by a few people that want colonization exactly historical. I can assure you this will not be changed unless Paradox decides to change the focus of the EU series entirely. As it is now, Paradox has stated quite clearly that EU is all about ahistorical outcomes.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

Last time I checked landlocked countries can not send colonists, and there is not even an AI for them..

 

[SonofWinter]

My proposal above, will stymie any colonization by non-colonizing nations. Lack of QftNW, means you don't colonize with -6 colonists per year. Lack of CoT makes it less likely to happen if you don't control the trade with -3 colonists.

 

[Chaplain]

True but Ahistorical A.I play is much more gun when in in reaction to my own ahistorical play.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[unmerged(9875)]

My proposal above, will stymie any colonization by non-colonizing nations. Lack of QftNW, means you don't colonize with -6 colonists per year. Lack of CoT makes it less likely to happen if you don't control the trade with -3 colonists.

As i see it, the problem is not the number of colonists. I did not see to much a-historical colonisation either, apart from a couple of West African provinces colonized by Austria, wich is valid since the have access to the sea via the lowlands.

What i did not like, and im probably repeating myself, is that me, as a human, get access to all those juicy colonies without deseving them. I.a, i did not have the QftNW idea.

But im sure this will be tweaked one way or the other at a not so distant date

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Now, THAT is good game design!

So, in fact there can't be a Treaty of Tordesillas unless the Pope has sent spies to Spain and Portugal, otherwise he wouldn't know that South America even existed...

 

[Laffertytig]

i think the problem lies with the speed with which exploration takes place. as i said in another thread i managed to explore the entire caribbean, US east coast and canada with one voyage lasting 14 months with the loss of 1 ship.

now if we can do that then so can the AI which will mean that most of the americas and beyond will be colonized by way to many nations in way to short a time, which for me takes away any fun in exploring/colonizing the new world.

have to say i dont have any problem whatsoever with unhistorical situations like for eg england colonozing brazil or whatever, that for me will keep the game fresh. it just has to be slowed down quite a bit i guess/hope

 

[kullenius]

[...] I can't help but feel that this is all so overblown by a few people that want colonization exactly historical. [...]

I wouldn't say that a few threads full of complaints is a few persons. The ones that want a bit of historical flavour visits these forums bacause Paradox have had a great history of making games with a lot of historical feelings to them, while the ones who like a fantasy game with historical names visits forums like the one for Civ (which by no means is a bad game, except if you want to play a bit historical). A lot of persons, including me, don't want to see our diamonds being transformed into yet another "historical" game that have nothing more then original names true to history. We already have a zillion of those games.

 

[SonofWinter]

As i see it, the problem is not the number of colonists. I did not see to much a-historical colonisation either, apart from a couple of West African provinces colonized by Austria, wich is valid since the have access to the sea via the lowlands.

What i did not like, and im probably repeating myself, is that me, as a human, get access to all those juicy colonies without deseving them. I.a, i did not have the QftNW idea.

But im sure this will be tweaked one way or the other at a not so distant date

If you make it impossible to colonize without QftNW, then things will stabilize a lot. You won't have Austria colonizing God knows where, because that was never its intention, on the other hand a QftNW choice means that there is an intention to colonize. Allowing for a player to play a-historically as can other nations, but not making it something that happens all the time.

 

[unmerged(9875)]

If you make it impossible to colonize without QftNW, then things will stabilize a lot. You won't have Austria colonizing God knows where, because that was never its intention, on the other hand a QftNW choice means that there is an intention to colonize. Allowing for a player to play a-historically as can other nations, but not making it something that happens all the time.

That could be an idea, but im not sure how that would work for I.A Russia wanting to colonize Siberia..or a land focused Sweden wanting to colonize Lappland.

A lot of Nations start with colonies as core provinces, would they need QftNW to develop them ?