Why are you assuming that a poor, backwards nation should be able to max out educational spending in the first place?
AHD Westernization
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Why are you assuming that a poor, backwards nation should be able to max out educational spending in the first place?
Conservatives support military reform, and passing a reform gives conservatives in the upper house, so its best to save all your RPs up and pass lots of military techs in one year. Also, you should put conservatives in power - reactionaries in power makes your aristocrats, and thus your upper house, tend to be reactionaries also.
As Japan, I passed one economic reform to stabilize my economy, then saved up my RPs until January 1862 - just after the upper house election. Then I passed 7 military reforms, one after another, and westernised in July, 1862.
I wasn't sphered by anyone, but I got a bunch of techs anyway. I researched Iron Steamers and built a few ironclads, then beat up China and in two wars took Korea, Port Arthur and Taiwan. I also took Sakhalin from the Russians and colonized the Pacific.
I then spent 40 years beating up China. I made a bunch of colonies into states (none in Korea or China, alas) and was tech leader by 1900. I just stopped in 1917 - I'm rank two GP and have China down to 4 states, so I can annex it with my next war. The war in China has been a bit boring though - its annoying that it costs 11 infamy to take a region from a substate. I wish there was a way to break these substates off from China, or else they should have a 5 infamy cost, the same as taking regular concessions. I wanted to take Manchuria as this is historical, but ended up having to take a big slice of the east coast instead.
Anyway, Japan is a very easy country to westernise as so long as you can deal with Russia. I agree with some others in this thread that national focuses don't do enough though - it takes a very long time to get clergy, and I think westernising as any other nation would be very tedious (perhaps Hawaii would be ok).
One change I would make would be to the 'imported arms' and 'foreign built ships' military reforms. Imported Arms gives you flintlock muskets at the moment - I would make this improve with time, so that it gives you the tech in this line equivalent to what your sphere master has, or to the worst of the great powers if you aren't in a sphere. The Foreign Ships reform should give you access to tech along the 'Clippers/Steamers' line.
As Japan, I passed one economic reform to stabilize my economy, then saved up my RPs until January 1862 - just after the upper house election. Then I passed 7 military reforms, one after another, and westernised in July, 1862.
I wasn't sphered by anyone, but I got a bunch of techs anyway. I researched Iron Steamers and built a few ironclads, then beat up China and in two wars took Korea, Port Arthur and Taiwan. I also took Sakhalin from the Russians and colonized the Pacific.
I then spent 40 years beating up China. I made a bunch of colonies into states (none in Korea or China, alas) and was tech leader by 1900. I just stopped in 1917 - I'm rank two GP and have China down to 4 states, so I can annex it with my next war. The war in China has been a bit boring though - its annoying that it costs 11 infamy to take a region from a substate. I wish there was a way to break these substates off from China, or else they should have a 5 infamy cost, the same as taking regular concessions. I wanted to take Manchuria as this is historical, but ended up having to take a big slice of the east coast instead.
Anyway, Japan is a very easy country to westernise as so long as you can deal with Russia. I agree with some others in this thread that national focuses don't do enough though - it takes a very long time to get clergy, and I think westernising as any other nation would be very tedious (perhaps Hawaii would be ok).
One change I would make would be to the 'imported arms' and 'foreign built ships' military reforms. Imported Arms gives you flintlock muskets at the moment - I would make this improve with time, so that it gives you the tech in this line equivalent to what your sphere master has, or to the worst of the great powers if you aren't in a sphere. The Foreign Ships reform should give you access to tech along the 'Clippers/Steamers' line.
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Why are you assuming that all uncivs are poor and backwards? This is exactly what I'm annoyed about. Zulu is not the same as China or Japan.
Yeah, that's the best strategy, but 1662 means you did pretty damn good. How much did you expand? I got jumped by The UK the moment I expanded.
I also agree with those changes. Japan was not using flint lock rifles or old sailing ships during Meji. They had gatling guns and steam ships.
I didn't expand at all! I only like to go to war when I have the tech advantage (I hate letting my primary culture pops die).
Russia attacked in the 1840s (they tried to steal Hokkaido) but I managed to fight them off.
Russia attacked in the 1840s (they tried to steal Hokkaido) but I managed to fight them off.
Eh?
Maybe you saw a picture of Cetswayo and was reminded of sumo wrestlers, but otherwise they were radically different in the mid-late 19th century. The Zulus were using assegais and shields in the 1870s and 80s while the Japanese had artillery and modern firearms.
Are you kidding me? Maybe you have absolutely no idea what the world was like back then, but Japan was more similar to 1700th century Europe at the time. Zulu was still at a level of pre-civilization. This might be the stupidest comment I've heard all year. Good job!
Oh, I love war. Without war I don't feel like I'm doing anything. However, when I do go to war, I always have a large advantage, so I don't lose a lot of people.
Im pretty sure delra is refering to '36, not after the japs went full pace at westernisation in the 60's
Which is what my post was referring too. delra's comment sounds like it came from someone who only knows where Japan is on the map because of games.
It's not my country. However, I did study it in college and over the course of a large amount of my life. In fact, I know it pretty well.
Zulu had a tribal system. No economy. No buildings. No guns. No steel. Which means they were a pre-civilization culture. In history, most cultures were like this around 6000 BC.
Japan had a complicated feudal system, similar to the rest of Europe. A rice based economy. Huge cities and thousands of castles. European rifles. Some of the best steel in the world. By 1836 they were already the regional power in Asia. They were most similar to a 17th century European nation.
Some of the Westernization reforms start either factory or RR construction but there's no way that you have enough Prestige to actually buy the required materials. Maybe there should be some kind of comprise where for the sake of only this construction that it uses the Prestige of your sphere master to get those supplies. Otherwise, it's meaningless that the factory or RRs are under construction because they'll never finish!
EDIT: I kind of think it should work as though it's a foreign investment. Doesn't foreign investment use the sphere master's prestige to determine the purchasing of the investment's base materials?
Indeed, things are very difficult for a small unsphered unciv. Most who only checked out China/Japan haven't realized that.
Playing Korea now...It's so far 1860 and I haven't been this bored since I last tried playing peaceful Abu Dhabi campaign in 1.4 version.
Guess I'll stick to playing civilized nations in this update, as it seems the whole civilization system was made with Japan in mind.
Guess I'll stick to playing civilized nations in this update, as it seems the whole civilization system was made with Japan in mind.
The game should just throw the uncivs a bone and give them the construction goods for free.
It should be very difficult unless you are Japan, China or at the very least Persia.
Zulu rising to technology comparable to that of Britain is insane.
Not really...
41 years (1877) with Brunei, and i've already saw some quick west with johore.
41 years (1877) with Brunei, and i've already saw some quick west with johore.