its based on what reforms you take, how long it takes you and who your sphere master is
AHD Westernization
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I was talking about his experience on AHD... :huh: This is exactly the second kind of comment that annoyed me earlier:laugh:. People don't have time to read carefully don't they~ Also, that was no arguement in that reply~ Just making points~
You do get techs even if you're not sphered. I got quite a few as Ethiopia despite the GPs treating me like a leper.
I think like a lot of Paradox features, it is a great idea but has a little bit to go yet. Like some others, I feel the current reform system is a bit passive. Playing as Panjab, all that happened was I sat there, trying to keep the budget balanced while I slowly got reforms that made small changes. I don't feel like I'm guiding a country towards modernisation so much as overseeing it.
The other problem I had was that the reforms didn't feel, well, very reformy (if that makes sense). Perhaps if there was more choice with the reforms, and they had more consequence, that would make it a more interesting game. For example, 'land reform', well what does that actually mean? Are you doing a British Enclosure type thing or a Muhammad Ali Nationalise the Cotton Fields thing? Perhaps you could have instead of reformed vs. unreformed various types of reforms. Land Reform: Enclosure, Nationalisation etc. Also, rather than a blanket increase in militancy for reactionaries, more targeted effects. Foreign officers for example increasing militancy of officers, training schools that of soldiers, land reform that of farmers and labourers etc. etc.
As I said before though, I think the reform system is really a step in the right direction.
The other problem I had was that the reforms didn't feel, well, very reformy (if that makes sense). Perhaps if there was more choice with the reforms, and they had more consequence, that would make it a more interesting game. For example, 'land reform', well what does that actually mean? Are you doing a British Enclosure type thing or a Muhammad Ali Nationalise the Cotton Fields thing? Perhaps you could have instead of reformed vs. unreformed various types of reforms. Land Reform: Enclosure, Nationalisation etc. Also, rather than a blanket increase in militancy for reactionaries, more targeted effects. Foreign officers for example increasing militancy of officers, training schools that of soldiers, land reform that of farmers and labourers etc. etc.
As I said before though, I think the reform system is really a step in the right direction.
Weternization is really great! And a bit hard too...
It took me 41 years (1877) to westernize with Brunei. Second country to westernize
It took me 41 years (1877) to westernize with Brunei. Second country to westernize
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I played as Korea and I got sphered by USA. My issue as Korea though is that I've had clergymen promoted since the start and right now in 1894 I guess I now generate around 2.1 RP. I'm at around 50% westernization.
thats exactly what i stated, however nobody seems to care. I read of people westernizing doubtfully fast and wonder how they do it.
Finally westernized as China in 1893, country immediately united but my sub-state's military all disappeared .
Seriously though, thank god for my sub-state's troops. There were two reactionary uprisings which completely crushed my armies, I was saved though when my sub-state came to help. I feel bad for Japan, they were modernizing faster than I was but after a couple of revolts, they were down to 30% westernized by 1893.
. Seriously though, thank god for my sub-state's troops. There were two reactionary uprisings which completely crushed my armies, I was saved though when my sub-state came to help. I feel bad for Japan, they were modernizing faster than I was but after a couple of revolts, they were down to 30% westernized by 1893.
I had a few issues with westernisation, playing as China. First of all, all my troops became reactionary rebels, thus rather defeating the point of having an army to protect oneself from the reactionary rebels that appear when you westernise. Secondly, the economy will quickly go completely bust, since my artisans can't sell anything on the world market, nor many of my RGOs (I assume that's because of the low prestige of uncivs). Thirdly, the RP accumulation appears to be bizarrely low. I get about 2 RPs/day, even though I used my one NF from day one to produce clergy. That means that, with an av. of 10K/tech, it'll take 136 years to westernise (at the current rate). That's longer than the game lasts. Fourthly, I don't get sphered, because the GPs are stuck in a silly battle over me and have been for quite some time.
So...how on earth do I westernise as China?
So...how on earth do I westernise as China?
For the Devs:
Playing as USA. Sphered all of China except Mongols, Tibet and Xinjiang. Japan has been ravaged by Russia...only Bonin and the SW Province which includes Okinawa are Japanese. The rest belongs to Russia. Oh I edited CB text to allow civs to take any unciv capital province (hence Edo being taken). Russia seems to love Japan....and before the invention of the internet nonethelesso
Playing as USA. Sphered all of China except Mongols, Tibet and Xinjiang. Japan has been ravaged by Russia...only Bonin and the SW Province which includes Okinawa are Japanese. The rest belongs to Russia. Oh I edited CB text to allow civs to take any unciv capital province (hence Edo being taken). Russia seems to love Japan....and before the invention of the internet nonetheless
o
As for me, I had ****-tons of modifiers working in my favour. I had the Westernizing event popping up and that gave me +10% research modifier. Furthermore, plenty of western countries were sending military expeditions over, each +2% research modifiers. This never happened on my first try with China, but on my second try, I made an active attempt to increase relations with a couple of countries and then they all started sending military expeditions over. Not sure if that's what caused it though. One downside though, each military expedition increases militancy.
So I generated around ~2 RP per day, with research modifiers, it came to ~4 per day most of the game in the civilizing phase.
@ZhangWuJi
no kidding, before in Vic II, Russia seemed to do more in Europe and loved warring the Ottomans. But now in AHD, they seem to favour invading East Asia.
Do this:
1) Put NF to clergy on your most populous province
2) Low the taxes to medium class
3) Spend maximum money on education
4) Do education reform as your first reform
5) Then for 2 military ones, do 1 economic
It worked very good for me
1) Put NF to clergy on your most populous province
2) Low the taxes to medium class
3) Spend maximum money on education
4) Do education reform as your first reform
5) Then for 2 military ones, do 1 economic
It worked very good for me
Anyone knows how to get the the economic reforms to have reduced cost modifier?
It happened only once for me, albeit for a short period of time before it was gone.
It happened only once for me, albeit for a short period of time before it was gone.
very high literacy, being an (american) sphereling ( in diplomacy tab , click a nation, upper right as 4th is now shown tech school, and when you hover there you will see "-25% economic reform cost" for USA techschool ), UH composition
Perhaps a 2nd national focus and removal of diplomacy penalty for some of the lesser used reforms, a late game (1880?) boost to research points along with the AI for great powers going after nations that appear to be completely neglected for sphereing would make a world of difference? Maybe transportation system reform could make the unciv much easier to sphere due to a nation "wanting to sell them equipment" or some other minor boost to being sphere?
Perhaps make the cost to some reforms much cheaper along with a reduction of westernization progress points? That way it seems like nations are making more progress (though not technically) but they can also remove more of the penalties as they go. Also makes for easier mix and match to get to 100% since there are 15% boosts but no 5%.
Perhaps make the cost to some reforms much cheaper along with a reduction of westernization progress points? That way it seems like nations are making more progress (though not technically) but they can also remove more of the penalties as they go. Also makes for easier mix and match to get to 100% since there are 15% boosts but no 5%.
AI targeting many neglected nations is a must. AI investing in these nations is also a must.
There is just a lot that doesn't make sense to me at this point. For example, why is there an early westernization option if you still can only fully westernize by the historical date, but not much sooner? Why do the historical options leave you so far behind the historical dates? Why does America give mostly economy bonuses? Historically, they gave mainly military. Why do you only gain bonuses from your sphere leader? Historically, Japan learned from many different nations. This was the key to their success after they westernized, because they studied the best in the world in each different area. They had British navy techs and American land techs. Not one or the other.
Furthermore, why do national focuses give so little bonus? You'd think if a nation put all their focus on doing something, they'd get a hell of a lot more done. This should be a huge way to actually control your nation. However, right now, it doesn't seem to do anything in most cases. What's with diplomatic points? Do you think Japan only conduced diplomatic talks once every 10 months? Did it take them almost 20 years to make a single ally, while doing absolutely nothing else? They fact is that before WW1 they were allies with a large amount of nations.
It feels like Paradox has a really solid feel for Europe. Everything in their games makes sense there. However, even with their expansions, it's like they just don't understand the world outside of Europe. Especially Asia and uncivilized nations. I think you see a lot of people in these forums that also don't really know about the area and love these expansions, but when you know a lot about the history in these areas, it's just frustrating to play. I mean, you can actually westernize Zulu during the time frame in this game, but it takes Japan almost the same amount of time even when you westernize early? You've got to be kidding me. Maybe I need to take a break and try a mod later...
Westernizing Japan in the 1836 scenario indeed takes too long. It's fine in the 1861 scenario though, since you start with lots of progress and sphered by the US.
As for NFs, they work just fine.
As for NFs, they work just fine.
Changing .1% of your population each year is not fine. You can change 1% of your population, in one city, during the course of the entire game. Hell, I don't even know if that was because of the national focus. I was also at 100% education spending. If you're playing your cards right by adjusting taxes and increasing spending while using a national focus you should definitely be able to get .1% change every month. That is more than realistic.
And yes, Japan seems much better off in 1861; although I haven't actually tried a game from that point. However, in 1936 it's pure frustration.