To be honest, you haven't tried an unciv nation seriously, and tbh, you didn't read the post of others before posting your own opinion, and tbh, you are the real minority on this one.
Yup, that month of playing through the civilizing system in Beta totally didn't involve me trying one seriously. I had balloons. And I wore a silly mask. But that's really only the first of many silly statements in your post, so I won't waste too much time commenting on that one.
Seriously, I've played through considerably more uncivs games than you have. Even if you started playing AHD the minute it was released, and haven't stopped since, I have still played more unciv games of AHD than you. You will overtake me some time tomorrow afternoon, unless I start a new one. But then, you haven't been playing constantly, so I'm guessing I still have a couple of days worth of play time on you.
"Bunch of free tech"- It takes time and luck to be sphered by a GP controlled by AI, even if they are your neighbor, so good luck with that.
Not really, it takes time and knowing what you're doing. As Delra has pointed out twice in the posts I didn't bother reading, you need to improve relations. I suspect you haven't been reading the posts of others before posting your opinion.
"Makes no sense" for unciv to be given permanent reform boost - unciv states suffer penalties without those reforms, and it takes at least 40 years to westernization for states like Japan. (longer for China) Why shouldn't they keep some of those tiny bonuses from the worthless reforms which they have to try so hard to get?
Because they now have much better bonuses for being civilized, and so shouldn't get uncivilized reforms anymore? Besides, as you point out, they suffer penalties from lacking certain reforms. Those penalties are not suddenly re-applied when you civilize, so you are getting to keep some bonuses. In fact, on the economic reforms side, there's not really any bonuses to keep - it purely cancels out negatives.
The fact that you receive techs more than compensates you for losing 10% land org.
"entirely possible to catch up in tech" - sure, after wasting over 40 game years (nearly half of the game span) on the pathetic westernization, unciv Have To spend the rest of the game time to catch up, which must be "FUN" in a human hand, heh. Go back to playing your GP if that's all u can do.
I see. So you feel you should be able to spend 5 years civilizing Zulu, and then catch up with the UK in the next 10 years or so? I'd suggest that actually, you should probably be the one going back to playing with GPs, since you clearly don't like playing an unciv at all. That's pretty much what you keep saying.
Read before saying anything. Those who shows little respect deserve no respect.
And those who have to end every paragraph or point with petty insults and ridiculous assumptions like 'Go back to playing your GP if that's all u can do.' and 'you haven't tried an unciv nation seriously' should probably not post at all.
I have read through the whole thread, and there's 3 people who feel Westernization is problematic - or rather, two who feel it's a bit slow, and you repeatedly saying the same thing, over and over - and a lot of people pointing out why half the reasons you cite are just plain factually incorrect. So I'd suggest your claim that those who like the new system are 'the real minority' is either deluded, or at best hopelessly optimistic.
I do agree that civving out of SOI is a bit on the slow side, but I disagree with the idea that you should keep some bonuses (particularly since some don't make any sense, like 'can build factory in capital'). And getting into an SOI isn't that hard.
It might
just be possible that you bought AHD, installed it, and did not instantly and completely understand every nuance and aspect of the civilizing system instantly upon setting eyes on it. I'm just saying it's a possibility.
