AHD Sphere of Influence

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mbrasher1

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I love V2's SOI system. I have some questions, though. Sometimes I seem to get countries bumped from my SOI without warning. I was playing the USA and the Ottomans, who were in my SOI and with whom I had 99 influence on top of that. I noticed that the Otts were no longer in my sphere.

I did not get a notice that the Otts were wrested out of my sphere. It is possible that the Otts returned to GP status (which would cause them to exit my sphere) but I kept the influence points. Weird. Anyone else get this?

Also, I was trying to find a way to eliminate my Sphere all at once to see the effect it had on employment, industrialization, etc. Anyone know a way to do this easily? In-game I cannot seem to be able to de-sphere people myself.
 

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Unfortunately, you can't kick countries out of your own sphere. Why not is beyond me.
 

masteriw

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Didn't they say this would be an AHD feature.
 

Syntax Error

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You might want to check the message settings about influence diplomacy, as it seems defaulted to interesting nations only.
 

mbrasher1

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You might want to check the message settings about influence diplomacy, as it seems defaulted to interesting nations only.

I checked the settings. I get notified when nations are bumped from my Sphere. I had the Ottoman Empire and Transvaal in my sphere. Both were bumped and I did not get notified.
 

unmerged(30465)

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In my game SOI is useless. I have to pay lot of money if countries join my SOI. Especially Asian countries. How come it is so costly to get them in? Why it is so different from vanilla?
 

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I found investing didn't help much, I'd be curious to know who you were trying to sphere? Honestly I didn't notice much difference between AHD and vanilla.

To the OP, I found that I was informed of revolutions, which does remove them from the sphere, but I don't remember receiving a message about them actually leaving my sphere.
 

unmerged(30465)

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In my game no one even wants to influence China and Japan. When Chinese empire joined my SOI my income decreased in 10 times and many artisans r just went bankrupt. Do you have anything similar to this?
 

mbrasher1

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Honestly I didn't notice much difference between AHD and vanilla.

Bite your tongue! :) AHD is so much more playable that vanilla it is not funny. The lag and game speed alone make a huge difference.

WRT to the Spheres, I do find AHD lacking in several respects. In vanilla, your influence, once maxed to sphere +100, will NOT continue to suck up influence points unless you take the influence off; in AHD, it does. Likewise, if I am banned and just want to move on to another influence target, am frozen from changing my influence level. I have to go back after I am unbanned to then eliminate or change influence priority.

And the losing Sphere countries I have described, it happens the same way. I am at Sphere +100 influence. Then the Sphereling is lost but I do not know who took it out (as I was never notified). Then my influence is +99. So I lose the Sphere plus 1 point exactly.

Why do I know that nobody is taking my Spherelings out and I have simply neglected to turn on the notification? Because I have to nurse influence much more than in vanilla. I am watching constantly, and closely monitor whenever any power touches my smallish sphere.

AHD was supposed to increase the fun per click in Vicky2. I feel it has done so, but not WRT Sphering.
 

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In my game no one even wants to influence China and Japan. When Chinese empire joined my SOI my income decreased in 10 times and many artisans r just went bankrupt. Do you have anything similar to this?
Did your production sells drop significantly? If so, your situation is rather common in vanilla, that your small industries get competed out by vast amount of Chinese artisans. I haven'f figured out how AHD changes local/common/world market structure for GPs, so I'm not sure what you describe in AHD is normal or not.
 

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In my game no one even wants to influence China and Japan. When Chinese empire joined my SOI my income decreased in 10 times and many artisans r just went bankrupt. Do you have anything similar to this?

Yea for some reason sphere[ing] is'nt working properly, economically. I believed that they intended for countries that are in your SOI to be helping your economy. Would be nice if they tweak a price reduction for goods in your country. A smaller reduction for sphere and normal price for world market. Seems like that would be a good approach.
 

unmerged(30465)

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Agreed. It looks like you open your market for countries in your SIO BUT they do not open their market for you :)))
 

unmerged(170957)

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I don't like how little control you have as a non-great power. Even over your own nation. Being sphered and canät do nothing about it. Nearly.
 

tului

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Yea for some reason sphere[ing] is'nt working properly, economically. I believed that they intended for countries that are in your SOI to be helping your economy. Would be nice if they tweak a price reduction for goods in your country. A smaller reduction for sphere and normal price for world market. Seems like that would be a good approach.
Were tariffs a large portion of your income when China joined? Not getting tariffs on the massives rgo and artisan output of china can shake you up at first.
 

unmerged(30465)

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in my game I had tariffs like 60% and when china joined my SOI all my artisans went to bankrupt. there is something not right in ADH SOI economic system
 

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No, it's just that you don't get tariffs from your internal market and CHI etc. can supply a lot of goods that you were previously importing.

mbrasher1: It only continues to influence them once you reach 100 if someone else has influence there. If so it decreases their influence.
 

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Hi, Darkrenown. Would you like to provide an answer to this question?
In AHD, SP / civ / unciv have only 50% / 75% / 100% of their products pulled directly into sphere common market. How about sphere leading GP? Do they keep all their products for local market first, or do they push 100% of their products directly into common market, as it did in vanilla?
 

unmerged(30465)

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Darkrenown
In vanilla I never had such problem. So, there IS a big change in AHD compare to economic system of vanilla. Another question is I can't find what is the change. I was playing with tariffs ( up and down ) but nothing helped me. And actually no country even trying to get china or Japan into its SOI. It was just me who rushed to influence it because in vanilla China was something great to be in your SOI and all great powers was fighting for it. Not any more, at least in my games.
 

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I think it´s rather obvious, that you only want to SOI china, if you have a developed industry already, which does not rely primarily on artisans. You´d do for the market and the ressources. If you dont need either, then it´s not only rather pointless, economically, but also, what will happen, as i see it, is that 100% of china (substates´) artisan products will be dumped on your market, resulting in your own artisans not able to sell all their stuff, despite the price being the same.

Before your artisans make goods worth 20, china´s artisans make goods worth 100. The chinese can buy goods worth 40. Your own market demands goods worth 20, which is saturated by your own production. Your artisans sell 100% of their stuff. Now china joins your market: Your overall prouction rose to 120, overall demand is at 60 - your contry´s artisans suddenly can only sell half their products internally and part of the rest gets dumped, as it cant sell on the world market.

A bit later in the game, this will change, as industrialization will have made artisans less and less competetive and china wont have factories. The added procution/added demand-ratio will have changed in favor for sphering: Instead of adding unwanted competition to your market, it will now provide you with badly needed ressources for producing even more to sell back to them.
 

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I think it´s rather obvious, that you only want to SOI china, if you have a developed industry already, which does not rely primarily on artisans. You´d do for the market and the ressources. If you dont need either, then it´s not only rather pointless, economically, but also, what will happen, as i see it, is that 100% of china (substates´) artisan products will be dumped on your market, resulting in your own artisans not able to sell all their stuff, despite the price being the same.

Before your artisans make goods worth 20, china´s artisans make goods worth 100. The chinese can buy goods worth 40. Your own market demands goods worth 20, which is saturated by your own production. Your artisans sell 100% of their stuff. Now china joins your market: Your overall prouction rose to 120, overall demand is at 60 - your contry´s artisans suddenly can only sell half their products internally and part of the rest gets dumped, as it cant sell on the world market.

A bit later in the game, this will change, as industrialization will have made artisans less and less competetive and china wont have factories. The added procution/added demand-ratio will have changed in favor for sphering: Instead of adding unwanted competition to your market, it will now provide you with badly needed ressources for producing even more to sell back to them.

First of all, THIS.

Second point:

Players have to stop thinking that a sphere of influence is a magical economic prosperity unicorn. It isn't. All it does is remove all potential tariffs (free trade between members of an SOI) and grant first access to goods before prestige priority. That's it. If you put an economy that is more dominate than yours into your SOI, well, too bad. You are going to run yourself out of business doing it. There are plenty of situations where putting someone into your SOI is a bad idea, especially in the early game.

If you depend on tariffs for income, then don't put any significantly populated country in your SOI. You will kill your tariff income.

If you are not industrialized enough, don't sphere highly populated uncivs with artisans (China, but also Japan can do this to a limited extent). When you sphere uncivs, you really should target countries that have RGOs you want when you have enough industry to make full use of their economy.

Remember: SOIs are not collusive economic agreements. Your POPs and factories still compete with the POPs and factories in the spherelings. The good news is that now you can use foreign investment to steer the industries of civilized spherelings. But you can't control their artisans, regardless.