AHD Economy Discussion

[Axe27]

Interventionism as anything other than Russia. If you're playing Russia, go with Reactionaries for state capitalism.

US can usually industrialize without government help, but you'll be behind in terms of industrial score. Try humiliating everyone to get prestige.

Never had a problem with the economy. For a good forty year span of time, my Greater Germany survived solely on 25% tariffs, before I built a massive military.

 

[Foxbyte]

Well, I checked it. Some of my factories make a minus, but they are selling everything.

Seems, you got it right though... I "overproduce" some of my products. One thing I still don't understand: Why do I have about 80k craftsmen, but only 3 usefull factories? It just doesn't make much sense to have a ton of unemployed people, practically useless. I didn't promote them either...

Maybe, I need a better understanding and a "How to" Guide for the "new" economy.

In general, factories that produce military goods aren't always going to be profitable; they'll be expanded during times where there are lots of big wars going on, but then generally fall into the red as their products need less.

Think of your industries as transitional rather than absolute; furniture and fabric won't always be a big seller, eventually the market will be clogged, especially if you upgrade these factories hard early on. Keep a nice variety of factories in every state, so as one market ebbs you can funnel your workforce into another. Also be sure to keep 1-2 slots free for when the late-game goods become available, as radios, telephones, and automobiles are excellent profit sources.

Electric gears? Outsource that. Remember, a civilized country you have sphered can be forced to send you 98% of their sales if you invest heavily... And the best part of this? Interventionism can't be used to build specific factories in your nation, but you -can- build specifics in foreign markets! Let your puppets deal with the factories in the red, and you can focus on the high-tier stuff like luxury goods.

Just be sure they don't become great powers. Single-state countries are best for this.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

(1) Do not subside factories for too long.
It is good to subside to start your economy, but if you do it too long, you will end up with upgraded factories that produce goods which are actually not profitable. This will drain ressources that could be used by other, profitable factories instead and creates a mass of craftsmen that have no profitable work to do. Try to cancel subsides from time to time, check the factories that are shut down, restart subsides, but delete some of the unprofitable factories and replace them.

(2) Research commercial techs.
Industrial techs just allow you to generate more goods in factories - which is nice for small nations, but not that necessary for big ones. Instead try to get techs that reduce input or increase output. This will allow you to generate more goods with less ressource input, thus increasing your profit margin. Forgetting about commerce is a good way to suffer from an economic crash around 1880 upwards, when all other competitors start becoming more efficient.

(3) The market is susceptible.
Large-scale wars with many occupied provinces or large nations achieving GP status can cause huge market fluctuations that can take several years to adjust.

 

[zarinth]

The big difference in AHD is efficiency. The railroads aren't like old school Victoria where you build freely. They are limited to open terrain. Mountains gets only half of available railroad tech. For factories there are three major difference in efficiency. Input Production Output. input reduces the raw material needed, production just boost production, i believe they are called throughput? Output means you get more stuff for the material spent producing it. But even with good efficiency, you need the demand for it else it won't sell. I like to have a diverse production and check the trade tab for amount being supplied and amount demanded.

 

[Derp]

(2) Research commercial techs.
Industrial techs just allow you to generate more goods in factories - which is nice for small nations, but not that necessary for big ones. Instead try to get techs that reduce input or increase output. This will allow you to generate more goods with less ressource input, thus increasing your profit margin. Forgetting about commerce is a good way to suffer from an economic crash around 1880 upwards, when all other competitors start becoming more efficient.

Very much this. They seem to get overlooked a lot because they were kind of the black sheep of 1.x but with the much harsher economy those -1% and -2% factory input techs can mean the difference between industrial collapse and capitalists swimming around in pools full of gold coins.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Very much this. They seem to get overlooked a lot because they were kind of the black sheep of 1.x but with the much harsher economy those -1% and -2% factory input techs can mean the difference between industrial collapse and capitalists swimming around in pools full of gold coins.

Management Strategy is now a really good tech. There are a lot of things to prioritize of the 1870 techs. And market structure is a nice early tech that give a lot of bonuses.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

"Management Strategy" in 1870 is by far the most important tech in regards to industry. It grants a +3% output bonus, and the inventions grant a total -9% input bonus!

Maybe this is the reason for economy problems around this timeframe - if some or many industrial powers research the tech quickly, market competition skyrockets and other nations suffer an economic downfall.

edit: Gna! Emu'd!

 

[Meanmanturbo]

"Management Strategy" in 1870 is by far the most important tech in regards to industry. It grants a +3% output bonus, and the inventions grant a total -9% input bonus!

Maybe this is the reason for economy problems around this timeframe - if some or many industrial powers research the tech quickly, market competition skyrockets and other nations suffer an economic downfall.

edit: Gna! Emu'd!

The best thing is of course that i competes with machine guns and chemistry for your prioritization. Chemistry more for support limit then fuel refineries though. But having refineries sop that your oil RGOs don't go completely broke is also important....decisions decisions, 1870-1885 are the turnings points of your industry

 

[GAGA Extrem]

The 1870's are indeed the decade with the most important choises, and a crossroad for most nations.

There are several important techs:
Machine Gun for colonisation and military expansion.
Management Strategy, Steel Railroad and Organic Chemistry for industrial developement.
Expressionism for prestige.
Social Science for permanent social and poltical improvement via CON.
Revolution And Counterrevoltion for another NF and the Women's Suffrage Movement.

 

[Darkrenown]

Fun facts:
Opening one single factory costs you money, opening all of them at once, doesn't cost you a single dime.

When I open closed factories, they get a ton of workers, make huge surpluses and after few days with nice surpluses, they go broke. It's a bit like premature ejaculation... o

1) I just started a game as the UK, switched to Tory party, closed and opened all factories. Cost me 40k.
2) When you open a factory, the only you pay goes into the factory budget. So if you open an unprofitable factory it will have startup pile of money you just paid to hire workers, but shortly it will run out and close again.

 

[Naselus]

Well, my problem is, that I play with really big profits, but in the 70s it always hits me big time. Everything's going down. I absolutely have no idea why.

Great Britain syndrome. You had great industry, didn't upgrade physical plant, and everyone else got much more efficient while your back was turned.

A 2% output bonus or -2 input bonus is better than all the throughput in the world. Get commerce techs and get clerks if you don't want to be out-competed in the late game.

 

[Jazumir]

The fun part about AHD´s economy is that you can fail without the reason being obvious, but still you can trust the model to be solid enough to rest assured, that there is a reason. It takes some analysis to figure out sometimes, and sometimes you might end up with the wrong conclusions, even. That´s what makes you feel like a real decision maker...

That the economy makes sense now, is hands down the greatest achievement of AHD and i´d like to thank the people involved, especially those outside PI, for doing such a great effort on it.

 

[Beagá]

Capitalist AI is the only thing that still needs work IMO. Last night as SP finally got Lombardia, thought of stimulating steel or machine parts since both were in large demand and OMG WAI PAPER MILL THAT HAS 600 SUPPLY AND 400 DEMAND WAI PARADOX?! WAI?!

Also, happiness is building a steamer shipyard in 1850. Now THAT´S profit. Without steamers of your own it´s impossible to have a decent navy.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Heh, I produced 85% of the worlds tanks as Scandinavia and I still only produced a third of my government needs. A slight imbalance there. But I think that military industries are much more viable in AHD, in vanilla they were usually worthless. Especially steamers and artillery since navies are so damn expensive. And they stimulate your steel industries. I like building commerce raider navies just to stimulate my early industry. Military industrial complex here we come

I like constitutional monarchies so that I can run LF economy most of the time and just switch to state capitalist to plonk down some of the important factories when they appear. This corresponds to three stages of industrialization as well. Ideally in three batches, but usually a little more spread out:
1. Early industries focusing on your RGOs. So lumber mills, steal mills, maybe booze. Maybe cement and glass. Gets your industry started and gets your cappis earning some money.
2. Mid-early stuff. Steamers and machine parts essentially. Arty an other military goods work now as well. Arty I feel is useful throughout the game because of navy costs, the others I'm not that sure about. Some are useful, but I feel that they get overproduced.
3. Late stuff. Combustion and Electricity factories. Cars, planes, phones, refineries. This one usually have to be more spread out then just one switch.

 

[Jazumir]

Capitalist AI is the only thing that still needs work IMO. Last night as SP finally got Lombardia, thought of stimulating steel or machine parts since both were in large demand and OMG WAI PAPER MILL THAT HAS 600 SUPPLY AND 400 DEMAND WAI PARADOX?! WAI?!

Also, happiness is building a steamer shipyard in 1850. Now THAT´S profit. Without steamers of your own it´s impossible to have a decent navy.

If the capis built only useful stuff, there´d be no drawback to LF*. And that you cant have a decent navy without your own steamer shipyard is sort of a ´duh´, in victoria terms. That´s what makes it so interesting, right? In any other game, you could of course have it all, if only to just not frustrate players. Vicky´s different - thanks god (and the devs).

*EDIT: I mean, common, it´s called ´laissez faire´ (´let them do´) - so dont complain if they dont do what you think they oughta do... if you feel the need to intervene, then go for ´interventionalism´ or what it´s called.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

If the capis built only useful stuff, there´d be no drawback to LF*. And that you cant have a decent navy without your own steamer shipyard is sort of a ´duh´, in victoria terms. That´s what makes it so interesting, right? In any other game, you could of course have it all, if only to just not frustrate players. Vicky´s different - thanks god (and the devs).

*EDIT: I mean, common, it´s called ´laissez faire´ (´let them do´) - so dont complain if they dont do what you think they oughta do... if you feel the need to intervene, then go for ´interventionalism´ or what it´s called.

Indeed. It would be wildly unrealistic if they never made mistakes.

 

[Jazumir]

Heh, I produced 85% of the worlds tanks as Scandinavia and I still only produced a third of my government needs. A slight imbalance there. [...]

Man, i want to be the country prodcuing the other 15%... Price must be through the roof, due to your scandinavian tank-army alone. I´d expand that factory like there is no tomorrow (as long as i have workers and raws/industrial goods for it), until that ´imbalance´ fixes itself (or you bancrupted yourself for those 15% alone, and disband parts of that tank-army).

 

[HeilLoki]

Great Britain syndrome. You had great industry, didn't upgrade physical plant, and everyone else got much more efficient while your back was turned.

A 2% output bonus or -2 input bonus is better than all the throughput in the world. Get commerce techs and get clerks if you don't want to be out-competed in the late game.

That can't be the problem, because I'm a commerce tech powerhouse.

 

[kingsword]

(1) Do not subside factories for too long.
It is good to subside to start your economy, but if you do it too long, you will end up with upgraded factories that produce goods which are actually not profitable. This will drain ressources that could be used by other, profitable factories instead and creates a mass of craftsmen that have no profitable work to do. Try to cancel subsides from time to time, check the factories that are shut down, restart subsides, but delete some of the unprofitable factories and replace them.

(2) Research commercial techs.
Industrial techs just allow you to generate more goods in factories - which is nice for small nations, but not that necessary for big ones. Instead try to get techs that reduce input or increase output. This will allow you to generate more goods with less ressource input, thus increasing your profit margin. Forgetting about commerce is a good way to suffer from an economic crash around 1880 upwards, when all other competitors start becoming more efficient.

(3) The market is susceptible.
Large-scale wars with many occupied provinces or large nations achieving GP status can cause huge market fluctuations that can take several years to adjust.

1- It takes decades to rebuild a multiple level factory that closed just because AI ran out of money on its own, with no noticeable (Brazil vs Argentina isn't a war that can cause fluctuation in wine price) wars going on.
2- The amount of saving isn't enough to stop a massive loss that can happen in AHD, it's not there because you pay too much for the cost, it's because you cannot sell a high demand product now.
3- No wars around, no mobilizations, no buildup, no nothing. POP's and their governments simply cannot afford even half of their demand. It's like this: 1000 demand, 500 supply, 250 sold for cement. Extends to other goods arbitrarily with no apparent reason.

 

[Caewil]

The problem is the display displays... Demand rather than what the pops can actually pay for. Its a bit misleading that way.