AHD DD11 – Rise of the Noble Savage

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podcat

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Welcome to this week's development diary for A House Divided. This time the diary is dedicated to uncivilized nations. In the original Victoria II uncivs were a bit overlooked and had a few problems. The political and social reforms don't really fit in well in Zulu society and trying to have a westernization process that is possible for said Zulus without making things way too easy for China wasn't really possible. So we decided to redo the entire system for uncivs.

First up uncivilized nations get two new types of reforms: Military and Economic, replacing the old reforms. To fully embrace westernization you need to pass a certain amount of these (either the entire military track, or the entire Economic, but mixing it up also works). Different reforms have very different effects. Some, like Army Schools, gives a boost to starting experience of all troops where as International Debt lets you take loans from other nations and Improved Transportation System give you free railroads constructed in your capital state. Enacting unciv reforms cost research points (modified a bit by upper-house composition), and it is no longer possible for uncivs to research technology through the regular trees. As you progress towards westernization another nice flavour thing is that your country's label changes. You can go from primitive, uncivilized, partially westernized to fully civilized.

dd11-politics.jpg

Reaching 100% westernization progress unlocks the action to westernize. When you do you will become a civilized nation and given technology. What technology you get depends on how you have decided to enact reforms (mainly military or mainly economic?) as well as if you are in a sphere of influence. If you are in a sphere you will be given technology based on your sphere master. If you are not in a sphere it is instead based on the lowest common technologies among the great powers. Being in a sphere also affects your westernization progress as your masters tech school will make different reform tracks easier. So for example if you are in Prussia's sphere military reforms will cost less to enact but you will get a bit costlier economic reforms. To give you as an uncivilized nation some little choice in the matter of sphering, good relations now give a small boost to influence so your friendly neighborhood great power are more likely to influence and win any competition of influence.

Uncivilized nations also get a new type of rebel faction that long for the good old days of pointy sticks and who are not impressed at all by your new railroads. If these rebels rise to power they will reverse reforms and whenever you enact a new reform you will anger the conservatives/reactionary risking that more people join this faction.

Tanks!
To have a chance to present all the new tanks you are getting double the tanky goodness this week. We have the French 22 ton Saint-Chamond tank prototyped in 1916 and the later 6 ton Russian MS-1 tank produced in 1928-1931.
dd11_tanks.png
 
Last edited:

Jaol

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Awesome! When you say "you will be given technology based on your sphere master" does that mean the default is to start with the same technology as the sphere leader, or some distance behind them? Can this be modded? I.e. can we make it so that newly Westernized nations start at par with the sphere leader, or 2 techs back, or have this modified by factors other than the reforms?

Do the westernization reforms give bonuses similar to technology? For example, if I have foreign training, weapons, and officers, do my troops fight better?

Do the westernization reforms get completely removed/replaced by tech when a nation westernizes, or do you keep them in addition?
 

podcat

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1. Awesome! When you say "you will be given technology based on your sphere master" does that mean the default is to start with the same technology as the sphere leader, or some distance behind them? Can this be modded? I.e. can we make it so that newly Westernized nations start at par with the sphere leader, or 2 techs back, or have this modified by factors other than the reforms?

2. Do the westernization reforms give bonuses similar to technology? For example, if I have foreign training, weapons, and officers, do my troops fight better?

3. Do the westernization reforms get completely removed/replaced by tech when a nation westernizes, or do you keep them in addition?

1. it is always some distance behind. Its fully moddable, so you set upper and lower limit and the amount of reforms picks between those. (if you want to do especially complex stuff there are also specific civilization events that fire when you westernize where you could do anything you feel like)
2. yes some give same effects as techs
3. they are completely replaced once you perform westernization
 
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LordTempest

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The reforms aren't as detailed as I'd like them to be but I'm sure that such detail could be modded in fairly easily. Two questions, do uncivs still have the same Political/Social reforms as everybody else? and Can you give us some examples of which nations start as primitive, uncivilised and partly civilised?
 

podcat

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The reforms aren't as detailed as I'd like them to be but I'm sure that such detail could be modded in fairly easily. Two questions, do uncivs still have the same Political/Social reforms as everybody else? and Can you give us some examples of which nations start as primitive, uncivilised and partly civilised?

no, the don't really care about those reforms until the country has civilized. The only thing they worry about is if they want more or less general progress. I can't remember exactly off the top of my head but Zulus are primitive and Japan is at least uncivilized I believe
 

Soulstrider

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So this means that our prestige and military score have no longer any effect on the westernization, right?
 

podcat

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So this means that our prestige and military score have no longer any effect on the westernization, right?

correct. so small nations should now be much more playable without exploits *cough* zulu world conquest *cough*
 

Soulstrider

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Just warning, the link for the T-18 tank is incorrect.

And damn I was hoping the Russian tank would be the awesome looking Tsar Tank :p

Tsar_tank.jpg
 

Jaol

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Its fully moddable, so you set upper and lower limit and the amount of reforms picks between those. (if you want to do especially complex stuff there are also specific civilization events that fire when you westernize where you could do anything you feel like)
Wow, that's even more flexible than I hoped it would be!

One more modding question: Can the various stages of development (primitive, uncivilized, partially westernized) be used in triggers like civilized = [yes/no]?
 

podcat

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Wow, that's even more flexible than I hoped it would be!

One more modding question: Can the various stages of development (primitive, uncivilized, partially westernized) be used in triggers like civilized = [yes/no]?

they are just flavor names depending on westernization level so you can check that with a different trigger

Just warning, the link for the T-18 tank is incorrect.

And damn I was hoping the Russian tank would be the awesome looking Tsar Tank :p

View attachment 43672


thanks, fixed the link now. Tsar Tank is pretty awesome, but also a bit big and silly to fit in imo :p
 

Arathian

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yay! An excellent AAR.

So, to enact the reforms you need not a liberal upper house, if I understand this correct, but instead research points that are reduced by having liberals.

A very interesting system indeed. Just one question, will all uncivs be able to be colonized like before? So for example, will attacking a semi-civilized Japan be the exact same as attacking a primitive zulu?
 

Arathian

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Looking very good.

Question: With the international debt reform enabling loans, what happens if an uncivilized nation without it goes below 0£?

what happens now when you bankrupt and still go negative. You simply cut the expenses from everywhere automatically until it is balanced.
 

Sumonious

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Does those reform take effect immediately ? I would prefer if it takes time and the the administration efficiency determines how fast for it to finish. That would represent corruption and resistance in uncivilized world against Modernization. Not all country has a collective will of both the head of state and a bureaucrat body to guide the nation toward modernization likes Japan.