Agrarian Idyll as an Origin

[HFY]

Agrarian Idyll is already incompatible with a handful of other Origins, so making it into an Origin makes some mechanical sense.

But also, from a flavor standpoint, the pre-built Districts on the Prosperous Unification start don't jibe with my idea of what an Agrarian Idyll homeworld would look like.

Finally, the 3.0 building slot changes mean that one major previous benefit of Agrarian Idyll -- not needing City districts to unlock building slots -- is no longer valid. There needs to be a mechanical replacement. For the purpose of this proposal, the mechanical replacement will be:

Agrarian Idyll capital buildings unlock double the usual Building Slots. Level 1 unlocks two slots, level 2 unlocks four slots, and so on.​

(The fact that this version of Agrarian Idyll would be an origin prevents shenanigans like building up a bunch of planets and then swapping out for a different civic.)


This is a proposal to change Agrarian Idyll to an Origin, and then leverage that to start out as a less-urban homeworld.

Spoiler: Post-Apocalyptic Start, Spiritualist Xenophobe

3 city
3 industry
2 generator
2 mine
2 agricultural
= 12 districts total, 33 district housing and 21 district jobs, 28 pops, 2 free building slots

Spoiler: Prosperous Unification Start, Militarist Xenophile

3 city
2 industry
3 generator
2 mine
3 agricultural

Building slots:
+2 capital level 2
+3 city districts
-3 pre-filled buildings

= 13 districts total, 35 district housing and 23 district jobs, 32 pops, 2 free building slots

Based on those samples from the game, Agrarian Idyll might look like:

3 Industrial districts
3 Generator districts
3 Mining districts
3 Agricultural districts

Building slots:
+2 capital level 2, then +2 bonus for Agrarian Idyll capital
-3 pre-built buildings

= 13 districts total, 35 district housing and 28 district jobs, 3 pre-filled buildings, 1 free building slot
​

A fully-developed / fully-teched Agrarian Idyll empire would not need any City districts to unlock all 12 slots on a regular planet.

Starting out, you'll have 2 building slots immediately in each new colony, and one less building slot on your Empire Capital.

Your worlds will look different from those of default empires, and there should be a few play differences.


Not sure if this should start with 28 pops or get a few bonus pops, but there's definitely wiggle room depending on how powerful the proposed layout feels in comparison to Prosperous Unification.

Thoughts?

 

[mammonmachine]

Hold up! This spoils one of my favourite empires (it has On the Shoulders of Giants + Agrarian Idyll, which depending on outcome work quite well together thematically).

But to be somewhat more objective - I think Agrarian Idyll is about how a society is organised rather than where it comes from. I realise this line is kind of fuzzy, (because a society's past has present impacts) but I feel it is a better fit for civics. It also allows for some other nice combos with syncretic evolution, mechanist, doomsday and more - each of which seems suggestive of a particular story for a civilization.

Your point on starting conditions of the homeworld is definitely valid, but for me I would rather keep the options created by Agrarian Idyll being a civic (which impacts the whole game) over having a more appropriate homeworld (which impacts the early game, but nothing else).

I do like your suggestion to make Agrarian Idyll give capital buildings a little bit extra building unlocking potential. I think that making it so no city slots are required is maybe taking things a little far though - maybe it could run:
Level 1 --> 2 slots
Level 2 --> 3 slots
Level 3 --> 5 slots
Level 4 --> 6 slots.

 

[HFY]

Hold up! This spoils one of my favourite empires (it has On the Shoulders of Giants + Agrarian Idyll, which depending on outcome work quite well together thematically).

Does that empire still work for you in 3.0?

I haven't used Agrarian Idyll successfully since 2.something -- the 3.0 changes just don't work for how I'm used to using the civic.

But to be somewhat more objective - I think Agrarian Idyll is about how a society is organised rather than where it comes from. I realise this line is kind of fuzzy, (because a society's past has present impacts) but I feel it is a better fit for civics. It also allows for some other nice combos with syncretic evolution, mechanist, doomsday and more - each of which seems suggestive of a particular story for a civilization.

Mmm, my impression of Agrarian Idyll is that it's a society where you feel ennobled by "simple" labor (farm work and such).

In my head, that means your founder species is doing the labor -- not robots, not Serviles.

So for me at least those combos don't work out flavor-wise.

Your point on starting conditions of the homeworld is definitely valid, but for me I would rather keep the options created by Agrarian Idyll being a civic (which impacts the whole game) over having a more appropriate homeworld (which impacts the early game, but nothing else).

Civics can be changed mid-game.

That's part of why I'm advocating for turning Agrarian Idyll into an Origin -- you can't remove an Origin, which means it can change mechanics that affect the whole game (e.g. Necrophage) or give you a trait you can't get elsewhere (e.g. Post-Apoc).

To me, that's the sort of game-long mechanical distinction which Agrarian Idyll needs.

Yeah, the homeworld change is small relative to that, but it's nice to have.

I do like your suggestion to make Agrarian Idyll give capital buildings a little bit extra building unlocking potential. I think that making it so no city slots are required is maybe taking things a little far though

I'm picturing two different ways to grow an Agrarian Idyll planet:

1 - Slowly grow your population -> upgrade capital building -> build out more

2 - Plop down some City districts and build out, then slowly replace the City districts with farms (or such) as you upgrade your capital building, plowing the suburbs into something useful

Both are flavorful and distinct -- either preserving rural spaces, or reclaiming rural land from abandoned cities.

 

[mammonmachine]

I've not played that empire in 3.0 admittedly.

In my head, that means your founder species is doing the labor -- not robots, not Serviles.

So for me at least those combos don't work out flavor-wise.

For me, it is creation of tension within the idea of an empire that stimulates the imagination. What would it mean to have a partner species that not only grows most of your food, but also looks after your people's needs -- what is this relationship, are they happy on both sides, what are the 'amenities' created in the farms - festivals, performances, health? What does it mean for an Agrarian Idyll civilization to have most the farmwork done by robots, what is the attitude to those robots (maybe something like the attitude to machines in Le Guin's Always Coming Home? Or something else?)

Civics can be changed mid-game.

I'd be in favour of making it a civic that can only be added at game start, but can be removed.

 

[HFY]

I've not played that empire in 3.0 admittedly.

Give it a try.

I think after trying it in 3.0 you'll agree that it's not working nearly as well as it did in 2.x, and now it needs fixing.

I hope you'll agree that what I'm proposing would be a fix.

 

[TrotBot]

Give it a try.

I think after trying it in 3.0 you'll agree that it's not working nearly as well as it did in 2.x, and now it needs fixing.

I hope you'll agree that what I'm proposing would be a fix.

if it becomes an origin i would love for it to no longer be limited to xenophobe ethics

 

[HFY]

if it becomes an origin i would love for it to no longer be limited to xenophobe ethics

I think Agrarian Idyll is limited to Pacifists, not Xenophobes.

Maybe you're thinking of Inward Perfection?

 

[General Karthos]

I think Agrarian Idyll is limited to Pacifists, not Xenophobes.

Maybe you're thinking of Inward Perfection?

Agrarian Idylli is limited to pacifist. One of my favorite plays (for relaxing) before the building overhaul was Inward Perfection/Agrarian Idyll, but the disadvantages to Agraryan Idyll owing to the way building slots work now is crippling. I have my own suggestion in this thread that at the very least they rework how building slots for Agrarian Idyll work.