Ageing (with dignity?)

[unmerged(99452)]

Hello, I think ageing is portrayed in a somewhat strange and ahistorical way in CK1. If someone survive their first years and never get wounded or have an illness, that person can often live to be 70 years or even more, for instance, I have had a king who died when he was 85. Another thing that I find strange is that your King can be a perfectly healthy 68 year old one day and the next day he is dead even though he never got an illness. I hope that CK2 will have a more natural ageing procees in regard to how people aged in the Middle Ages. For example I think that your character should randomly start to age when he is in his forties or late thirties. Several events should be attached to this ageing process. Early in the ageing you can only get "good" or not so bad events like, "Im older but wiser" giving something like -1 in fertility but +1 in intelligence. As the years grind on you will get more negative events from ageing like, "Your mind is not as clear as it used to be" giving -1 in intelligence, -2 fertility and -1 in health or something and even later harmful events like "Your legs wont carry you(-2 health, -4 fertility and -1 in all stats) will occour. Basically I want events to remind you that your charachter is getting old. So what do you think about this?

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Hello, I think ageing is portrayed in a somewhat strange and ahistorical way in CK1. If someone survive their first years and never get wounded or have an illness, that person can often live to be 70 years or even more, for instance, I have had a king who died when he was 85. Another thing that I find strange is that your King can be a perfectly healthy 68 year old one day and the next day he is dead even though he never got an illness. I hope that CK2 will have a more natural ageing procees in regard to how people aged in the Middle Ages. For example I think that your character should randomly start to age when he is in his forties or late thirties. Several events should be attached to this ageing process. Early in the ageing you can only get "good" or not so bad events like, "Im older but wiser" giving something like -1 in fertility but +1 in intelligence. As the years grind on you will get more negative events from ageing like, "Your mind is not as clear as it used to be" giving -1 in intelligence, -2 fertility and -1 in health or something and even later harmful events like "Your legs wont carry you(-2 health, -4 fertility and -1 in all stats) will occour. Basically I want events to remind you that your charachter is getting old. So what do you think about this?

Actually I find this to be very intriguing, engaging and would be pretty easy. I for one could probably add this to CK 1 given a few hours of uninterrupted programming and a few testers to debug.

 

[Mrdie]

When I suggested this people got mad and acted as if an 80 year old could be as spry as a 20 year old in all fields. :/

But yeah, I endorse something like this in the main. Having a 90 year old leader should not be a good thing under most circumstances, and people of such age shouldn't be very good as active advisors in most cases. Doesn't mean that they all walk around with skill levels at 1, but it does mean they should generally be a bit lower than when they were younger.

 

[A_Dane]

I don't really see the problem in having 68 year old people, who are appareantly in good health, suddenly die for no apparant reason. My great-aunt died at the age of 58, had been in excellent health until the day she died of a massive heart attack..

If anything, you should be complaining that they live to be that old reguarly (although I never really experienced this in CK1, I've played alot of games, and the oldest ruler i ever got was 72.. and he suffered from pretty much everything, you can suffer from in the game..

this is not to say that I don't like the idea though

 

[unmerged(99452)]

I don't really see the problem in having 68 year old people, who are appareantly in good health, suddenly die for no apparant reason. My great-aunt died at the age of 58, had been in excellent health until the day she died of a massive heart attack..

If anything, you should be complaining that they live to be that old reguarly (although I never really experienced this in CK1, I've played alot of games, and the oldest ruler i ever got was 72.. and he suffered from pretty much everything, you can suffer from in the game..

this is not to say that I don't like the idea though

Yes I agree with you, there should be a small probability that your character can die regardless of his health or age as a result of heart attacks or strokes.

 

[LaIsHeR]

Yes this is really good suggestion, in CK it was like 90% deaths were because of strokes... And also I would like to know why my character die example:
Your King has died because of food poisoning.
1)Chef has to die
2)Chef should be awarded
3)We have enemy among us

Something like that would be neat

EDIT: Also in CK you never get better with aging, at least after 40. I think rulers could be better in 70 than they were in 25

 

[unmerged(99452)]

Yes this is really good suggestion, in CK it was like 90% deaths were because of strokes... And also I would like to know why my character die example:
Your King has died because of food poisoning.
1)Chef has to die
2)Chef should be awarded
3)We have enemy among us

Something like that would be neat

I only think that the events related to that would work if he was assasinated. Otherwise it should just say that he passed away to the Lord in his sleep or something since modern medical terminology doesnt fit into the Middle Ages.

 

[vwclaymore]

I do like the aging events idea, however I also think it was perfectly common for medieval people to die suddenly from accidents or disease (quick ones too, not long ones like you are talking about). In these cases though it would be nice to have an event go along with it. (aka "My lord, your son Henry has the bloody flux, he is not expected to last the week!" ::90% chance Richard dies::/::5% chance Richard gains the trait pious and +25 piety:: ).

 

[vwclaymore]

On that note, I think it would be cool to have, esp. for pious/zealous characters, events pop up like. "You mourn the death of your son and worry about his eternal soul.
::Build a monastary in _____ in your sons name:: monastary built in _____, -150 gold,+50 piety (for you and deceased), +15 prestige, 50% chance of gaining pious
:ay the local monastry to pray for his soul for the next month:: -25 gold, +10 piety (for you and deceased)
::On second thought, he was an ungrateful whelp. Let him burn in hell! :: -25 piety, 25% chance of gaining sceptical, 25% chance of gaining selfish

 

[unmerged(99452)]

I do like the aging events idea, however I also think it was perfectly common for medieval people to die suddenly from accidents or disease (quick ones too, not long ones like you are talking about). In these cases though it would be nice to have an event go along with it. (aka "My lord, your son Henry has the bloody flux, he is not expected to last the week!" ::90% chance Richard dies::/::5% chance Richard gains the trait pious and +25 piety:: ).

Yes of course diseases should be able to wipe you out fast, even if you are in your early adulthood. But maybe there should be a higher probability to succumb to the illness if you are older.

 

[unmerged(220068)]

what i would prefer if that there is a limit to illneses and wounds, its not possible for a medieval eprson to be 40 years ill and living, or 2o years severely wounded as happened to me several times, either they get better or they get worse, its the dark ages, there was no medicine, how can you mantain a person 20 years with the plague and not die

 

[the_legion]

What about this:

Make a "candle" symbol next to the portrait. The candle stands for the general
health of a character. If the candle is great your guy is healthy. He can still die
by event but a natural death is not very likely. The candle will "burn down" and
get smaller even if he has no serious illnesses. If he has serious illnesses the
candle will burn down faster. It cannot recover. So if you have had a serious
sickness for 20 years and loose the illness via event it will still have lowered your
overall lifetime preventing guys getting to old that have suffered a lot of illnesses.

The point of this would be that you can (as in reality) predict someone to die the next few years of age. It would add "the sum of small and past sicknesses" to the calculation. And if your candle is low and you feel you die soon you can rethink who will follow you on the throne
Another point is that you could give women a higher base-value for the candle representing their statistical potential to live longer (countered by the possibily to
die when giving birth which was allready in)...

Maybe to complex to add in CK2 at this stage but I belive there will be a CK3

 

[unmerged(28803)]

Well, medieval life expectancy was low for many reasons, not the least diet, hygiene and diseases. And varied, accordingly, in different stratas of life. Consider Enrico Dandalo, for instance. 90 yrs old, blind and still rocking during the fourth crusade.

 

[the_legion]

- Diet can be simulated with traits, e.g. You have gained the "fat"-trait
- Hygiene was pretty much the same. Nobles had a bit more because they weren't living with animals in direct contact but
after all the knowledge of hygiene beeing healthy wasn't given. There was even the myth that dirt would be good to not
let diseases come into the skin ^-^

But after all, everyone had a "basic value" of how old he can get (the starting canlde in my version).
This basevalue could be generated by mother_base_value * father_base_value / 2 * mother_father_realatives_malus * gender_factor
This way (abstract) genetics would be in.

 

[unmerged(99452)]

What about this:

Make a "candle" symbol next to the portrait. The candle stands for the general
health of a character. If the candle is great your guy is healthy. He can still die
by event but a natural death is not very likely. The candle will "burn down" and
get smaller even if he has no serious illnesses. If he has serious illnesses the
candle will burn down faster. It cannot recover. So if you have had a serious
sickness for 20 years and loose the illness via event it will still have lowered your
overall lifetime preventing guys getting to old that have suffered a lot of illnesses.

The point of this would be that you can (as in reality) predict someone to die the next few years of age. It would add "the sum of small and past sicknesses" to the calculation. And if your candle is low and you feel you die soon you can rethink who will follow you on the throne
Another point is that you could give women a higher base-value for the candle representing their statistical potential to live longer (countered by the possibily to
die when giving birth which was allready in)...

Maybe to complex to add in CK2 at this stage but I belive there will be a CK3

I dont think that the candle you are proposing should be visible to the player since I do not agree with you when you say that you can predict when someone will die in real life. I want events to remind you that your character is getting older but I do not want to know that your character will die in approximately 2 years and 5 months.

 

[the_legion]

I think you missunderstood me. He might also die the next day (via event) or in 2 weeks (if he get's an serious illness) but most people that die of age
have a sum of small issues before dying. You cannot say they die in 1 year or 2 years for sure, but it is allmost certain that they won't make another 10 years.
I was thinking of 3 different pictures (Full candle, half candle, and nearly gone candle) or maybe 5 different maximum as visual feedback for the player
(The calculation behind beeing more precise of course).

I don't know how CPU-intense this would be however, but that's not my part ^-^

 

[unmerged(99452)]

I think you missunderstood me. He might also die the next day (via event) or in 2 weeks (if he get's an serious illness) but most people that die of age
have a sum of small issues before dying. You cannot say they die in 1 year or 2 years for sure, but it is allmost certain that they won't make another 10 years.
I was thinking of 3 different pictures (Full candle, half candle, and nearly gone candle) or maybe 5 different maximum as visual feedback for the player
(The calculation behind beeing more precise of course).

I don't know how CPU-intense this would be however, but that's not my part ^-^

Ok sorry, now I understand you better. Yes I agree with you that if your character is ill very often he should have a smaller chance to become very old. However Charles Darwin was ill often during his life but still managed to reach the age of 73. Although he lived in the 19th century and thankfully not in the Middle Ages, the medicine used, especially in the early 19th century, had not improved that dramastically. For example harmful pills were often prescribed like mercury pills.

 

[cosmeIII]

What about this:

Make a "candle" symbol next to the portrait. The candle stands for the general
health of a character. If the candle is great your guy is healthy. He can still die
by event but a natural death is not very likely. The candle will "burn down" and
get smaller even if he has no serious illnesses. If he has serious illnesses the
candle will burn down faster. It cannot recover. So if you have had a serious
sickness for 20 years and loose the illness via event it will still have lowered your
overall lifetime preventing guys getting to old that have suffered a lot of illnesses.

The point of this would be that you can (as in reality) predict someone to die the next few years of age. It would add "the sum of small and past sicknesses" to the calculation. And if your candle is low and you feel you die soon you can rethink who will follow you on the throne
Another point is that you could give women a higher base-value for the candle representing their statistical potential to live longer (countered by the possibily to
die when giving birth which was allready in)...

Maybe to complex to add in CK2 at this stage but I belive there will be a CK3

This reminds me of The Guild 2, where you could see a candle with each character that told you how many years he was going to live on (approximately).

It sounds very interesting, but I don't think we'll see it in CK 2, maybe traits that help use see the situation of the character?

 

[the_legion]

I played the guild 1+2, so maybe I have stolen the idea from those games ...
To make it less obviously the image could also be a tree which looses it's leafs or something
You could also leave the image completely and do it textbased. But a visual feedback is better imho.

 

[vwclaymore]

Maybe they could throw is a deathbed trait that lets you know the character could last anywhere from a day to 3 months. That would be cool. Maybe have it bring a few political jockying events in preparation for the succession.