NINJEW

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bombardons are like, a mid-tier artillery unit, and old RG was far and away the best t3 in the game

new RG is hopefully closer to the avatar or phoenix walker in strength
 

mr_stibbons

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bombardons are like, a mid-tier artillery unit, and old RG was far and away the best t3 in the game

new RG is hopefully closer to the avatar or phoenix walker in strength

New rift generator is tech 8 research with the approximate damage profile of a vanguard purifier, before this patch's purifier buffs. It won't be a decent unit when it's this pillowfisted.
 

NINJEW

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the scary part of the rift generator was never its damage

damage output on par with a pure damage dealing unit like the vanguard walker was just the hilarious icing on the cake
 

ImWist

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bombardons are like, a mid-tier artillery unit, and old RG was far and away the best t3 in the game
so the developers conceived, but... we have "secondary" attack 15 х 3 (as new amason's T-Rex, but 7 range and w/o penalties for cover)

vanguard tank was nerfed in a patch - it's good. Just like the borbadon was overpowered for T5 research level

There is 3.5 tier in AoW. Remember the rogue's Shadow in AoW3. This is normal
Now the RG is not worth its research price
 

FerrokenFibrous

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Biocannon 15(!!!) х 3 with 90% acc, 7 range and ignores cover and unit penalties... tier 5. Are you seriously?
+ scan by biomancer
+ with aborian's shield
+ imba fraction's mods (Grounding Harness + Regenerative Bioregulator / Blood Fury Inducers + any weapon mod)
= complete annihilation of all living and ... nonliving :D

it doesn't counteract

p.s. forget... + biochemical maceration -3 biochemical resist with 100% chance for 3 turn

90% base accuracy is normal for the vast majority of units in the game and doesn't take into account things like distance penalties. I've tried using Bombardons myself and never found their accuracy as crazy as Huntresses or Amazon Purifiers despite the fact that all three units ignore cover.

Does anyone else feel that the rift generator nerfs were a little excessive? I get that unresistable desynch was an issue, but then cutting the damage on the coils, the range on the rift, making desynch a full action, and giving it large target? I have a hard time seeing why I would ever make a rift generator in this state, it's just worse than other t3s at everything it tries to do.

Full action desync prevents abuse with the Voidtech teleport mod, and I think Large Target is pretty deserved considering it has a built-in +15% evasion and pass wall ability without needing to equip the first Voidtech mod. Letting it take cover on top of said evasion basically meant it could out-dodge Pustules, especially since the Pustule needs to travel huge distances to maximize its evasion and gets less opportunities to do so when it's right in the enemy's face, while the Rifty can just sit at range and stack evasion, cover, and the enemy's distance/line-of-sight penalties.

I mean granted, the Pustule can take cover as well, but such a thing is not as effective when you're in the middle of the enemy's formation.
 
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ImWist

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90% base accuracy is normal for the vast majority of units in the game and doesn't take into account things like distance penalties. I've tried using Bombardons myself and never found their accuracy as crazy as Huntresses or Amazon Purifiers despite the fact that all three units ignore cover
imho, they (Huntresses or Amazon Purifiers) also ignore distance penalties
 

orangelex44

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So what happened to the colony improvements that came with the sector terrain technologies, gone for good?

Yes.

New rift generator is tech 8 research with the approximate damage profile of a vanguard purifier, before this patch's purifier buffs. It won't be a decent unit when it's this pillowfisted.

The Rift Generator used to have the offensive stats of a full DPS, the defensive stats of a full tank, and the ability profile of a full support - and all three areas were cranked up to 11. Now it still has the ability profile of a primary support unit, with solid offense and defense numbers.
 

Tombles

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imho, they (Huntresses or Amazon Purifiers) also ignore distance penalties

Bows are range 5, but optimal range 4, so you're sort of right. There's a small penalty for shooting at things at max range.

Anyways, as a general developer statement on the balance stuff, we try hard to listen to people to figure out how to balance units, but (as can be seen from this thread) it's very hard to get a good consensus on what is actually too strong or too weak, so we can't please everyone in the end.

We will be releasing another patch over a few months, and it will have more balance changes in it where we can hopefully fix any issues that have been missed (or caused) by this update.
 

Sinsling

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The Rift Generator used to have the offensive stats of a full DPS, the defensive stats of a full tank, and the ability profile of a full support - and all three areas were cranked up to 11. Now it still has the ability profile of a primary support unit, with solid offense and defense numbers.
Adding to this that they were also a full artillery. :p
 

Round_Dice

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Lemme get this straight, in the patch that makes sector terrain upgrades automatic... You halve the cost of Amazon's terraforming, while giving just about every single unit they have a boost?

Might as well change the name of the game to Age of Wonders: Amazons.
 

orangelex44

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Lemme get this straight, in the patch that makes sector terrain upgrades automatic... You halve the cost of Amazon's terraforming, while giving just about every single unit they have a boost?

Might as well change the name of the game to Age of Wonders: Amazons.

It's not quite that simple. Terraforming everything to forests can be very counterproductive because you lose the previous sector type. If you need energy or tech, spamming forests is actually counterproductive because they add food and production.
 

Round_Dice

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It's not quite that simple. Terraforming everything to forests can be very counterproductive because you lose the previous sector type. If you need energy or tech, spamming forests is actually counterproductive because they add food and production.
It is that simple. Just because you won't benefit from terraforming absolutely everything doesn't mean that it isn't extremely useful.
Amazons can also terraform sectors into Arcadian, which is even better now that Volcanic sectors don't give bonuses.
 

Satonir

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Scissors-Rock-Paper model
is a basic example of objective balance approach.

Let us call melee units scissors, tanky units rock and ranged units paper.

Why do I say there are units out of this universe that should get some natural counters?

Let us compare flyers present in the game. Note that fliers are ground scissors- immune units, that can only be struck hard by some high tier units melee attacks.

Ramjet - scissors, glass cannon;
L. rider - paper/scissors;
Harrier - classic paper; ALB - classic scissors.
Mirage - classic rock;
Gunship - a pretty good paper;

Engulfer
- unbelievably good (in hands of a human player when good heroes are present) paper/rock unit, which has Basic def. stats of 5/40 and range of 7, repeating attack.

Kir'ko can boost their range up to 10, evasion up to 50% (ty psibuffs), make them ignore 35% damage (that will go to 90hp heroes), and...

Have you ever seen a 11 defence stats 10 attack range flying unit? I see it in 50% of my games.

How does 5 transform into 11? Those are easiest options:
1. Psybuff +6 resistance (psybuff in AOE with guiding presence/aura)
2. Pick heritor and transform 3 charges into aoe 6-shield with mod.
3. Pick heritor and essence links on heroes, collect 3 charges per each connected unit.

Also there are many ways to get 3-4 defence:
- a psybuff;
- a tac op;
- adaptive carapace.

You can say: okay, okay, i can also get most defence options as Syndicate or other race. Do i need kir'ko that much?

The answer is: you do. No other race has range 10 fliers with 5 basic defence.
 

Sinsling

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Scissors-Rock-Paper model
is a basic example of objective balance approach.

Let us call melee units scissors, tanky units rock and ranged units paper.

Why do I say there are units out of this universe that should get some natural counters?

Let us compare flyers present in the game. Note that fliers are ground scissors- immune units, that can only be struck hard by some high tier units melee attacks.

Ramjet - scissors, glass cannon;
L. rider - paper/scissors;
Harrier - classic paper; ALB - classic scissors.
Mirage - classic rock;
Gunship - a pretty good paper;

Engulfer
- unbelievably good (in hands of a human player when good heroes are present) paper/rock unit, which has Basic def. stats of 5/40 and range of 7, repeating attack.

Kir'ko can boost their range up to 10, evasion up to 50% (ty psibuffs), make them ignore 35% damage (that will go to 90hp heroes), and...

Have you ever seen a 11 defence stats 10 attack range flying unit? I see it in 50% of my games.

How does 5 transform into 11? Those are easiest options:
1. Psybuff +6 resistance (psybuff in AOE with guiding presence/aura)
2. Pick heritor and transform 3 charges into aoe 6-shield with mod.
3. Pick heritor and essence links on heroes, collect 3 charges per each connected unit.

Also there are many ways to get 3-4 defence:
- a psybuff;
- a tac op;
- adaptive carapace.

You can say: okay, okay, i can also get most defence options as Syndicate or other race. Do i need kir'ko that much?

The answer is: you do. No other race has range 10 fliers with 5 basic defence.
3 native armor.

You could at least try to have the numbers right the first time.

And no, you dont get to just throw production bonus on to the unit's base stats, because every other unit can get those as well.
 

Satonir

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3 native armor.

You could at least try to have the numbers right the first time.

And no, you dont get to just throw production bonus on to the unit's base stats, because every other unit can get those as well.

Man seriously, what the hell. Why shouldn't I count swarm shield when im using it a priori?
 

DragonZee

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What about other Kir'ko units? Do people only play Engulfers? Generally I got the feeling most of their units were hit with a nerf?

Either way I don't play multi so I can't exactly tell how much this is an issue.

When I played with Engulfers I got a general feel that they're pretty easy to hit and kill, but I might've not used all the tricks at their disposal...
 
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