Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Faction Spotlight: Kir'Ko

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Tomipapa

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Any tech is supposed to be allowed for any faction.
We seem to be assuming that the Promethean units we have seen are the only possible appearance of them, which given that AoW3 changed the class units based on race, this seems unfounded.

I think if tech units would change visually based on race like in AoW 3, the devs would have said it already. In my opinion this is how the purifier will look, regardless of your race.

Purifier.jpg


But of course i could be wrong. This question should be easily answered, not a big secret i think, and would be greatfull for an answer from the devs. So @Tombles or @sikbok can you please ? :)
 

Fenraellis

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Because I think the Kir'ko would look weird using Promethean tech... which includes human flamethrowers, and mechanical tanks and mechs, when all their units are biological.
Or similar to Age of Wonders 3, will these special units change per faction?

From the info I got from unit description, to me it seems only the higher forms are intelligent, like the sniper-like units (who are basically immature queens) and the psychic floater. I think the frenzied, ravenous and tormented are just drones that do as they are told - since they became apathetic and let humans control them after the federation lobotomized the old queens.
Most likely, as a personal theory, all Kir'Ko can communicate with each other on some level, at least along some psionic wavelengths. Perhaps even via pheromones. Meanwhile the relatively more humanoid Kir'Ko(Frenzied, Hidden, Transcendent and Heroes) can communicate with other beings, due to having the right sort of vocal cords. Although, according to the frenzied unit description mr_stibbons already referenced, translation was required.


As for faction versions of secret tech units, we do have the distinct example of the Purifier, which has the 'Vanguard' title in front of it, unlike the Aegis Tank and Phoenix Walker. This is likely due to being a Biological unit, but it does suggest that another faction using a Purifier will at least look somewhat different, even if it has the same core abilities(not counting a faction;s unit traits). Similar to racial class units of AoW 3, except by the nature of the system, I fully expect less built-in deviation for the units of different factions. With the unit mod system taking the place of such things.

Also, I believe it might be questionable to consider Promethean tech to be 'human flamethrowers,' and the like, or else essentially all of the secret techs might really be classified as such, due to being things undergoing research by the former Star Union(an apparently primarily 'Human'-like empire). Biochemical flamethrowers exist, and are even a unit mod for the Biochemical Weapon Group. That, and Promethean tech actually has a very different visual aesthetic compared to Vanguard tech.
That being said, it is certainly true that while the Purifier might look suitably Kir'Ko-ified, due to being a Biological unit, the Aegis Tank and Phoenix Walker may clash with their aesthetic. A decent analogy might be how Dreadnought units visually clashed with several of the AoW 3 races. Following that line of thought, it's not much different than fielding a flame tank alongside some Eagle Riders.

As I said earlier, though, I rather doubt we will see faction versions of Mechanical units in general, the same as how any Machines and Summoned units in AoW 3 never had racial versions. Sorcerer only had a single racial unit, Archdruid, Dreadnought(party robot excluded) and Necromancer only had two(although it did have the Ghoul shader, but that's a bit different). Frost Tanks were a special exception as well, for obvious reasons. In general though, I doubt people begrudged summoned units and machines not having racial diversity added to them, and that's what would happen here.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Good point @Fenraellis .

A machine is a machine is a machine though, and in aow3 was justified by things such as there being a guild of dreadnoughts etc.

Also magic.

I can see how justifying the use of a flamethrower by an insectoid race might be challenging, but I'm not convinced it's a deal breaker.

I think the closest comparison we have is that if Draconian Dreadnought.

Not too much synergy from what I can recall.

I was also not fond of that combo for lore and assymetrical reasons, because had it been upto me I'd have made Draconian much more dragon like and, of the regular races, the most removed from the Base template, on account of them being feral, lacking proper hands etc.

It would also have made them fit in more with the lore of them being suppressed and oppressed for being so alien.

I wouldn't have had them build walls for example, and therefore logically not the normal machines.

I'd have made them more directly Dragon like.


It would have been a hot fun mess!.


In their current form, it's hard to reconcile Draconians with Dreadnoughts anyway, but it's still a functional combo, if not "good" per se.


Thinking about it, could innate fire resistance and flamethrower be a good combo?

I suck at dread but I'm thinking any other race would be better.

Haflings and Elves get flying cavalry with pistols.

Humans are a classic. Ditto Dwarves, due to armour synergy (and pistol Knights for humans.)

Frostlings get a special tank, which works well with their t3 and t2 support units.

Goblins massed musketeers has won me games! And pistol beetles and potentially waves of Warg riders (good value imho)

Orcs get the armoured upgrades too iirc. And massed Black Knights with pistols will always be dangerous.

I may be wrong and I may have missed something but Drac Dread seems a weak combo.

And I am concerned there may be a similarly lacking in synergy combo in planetfall, and it might well be Kir'ko Promethean.

On the other hand this is all probably premature worrying and Xenoplague Kir'ko is probably massively OP!
 

HousePet

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As I said earlier, though, I rather doubt we will see faction versions of Mechanical units in general, the same as how any Machines and Summoned units in AoW 3 never had racial versions. Sorcerer only had a single racial unit, Archdruid, Dreadnought(party robot excluded) and Necromancer only had two(although it did have the Ghoul shader, but that's a bit different). Frost Tanks were a special exception as well, for obvious reasons. In general though, I doubt people begrudged summoned units and machines not having racial diversity added to them, and that's what would happen here.
True, but we did strongly object to the lack of racial choice having meaning in AoW3, and it looks like they have attempted to address this for PF.
However, the racial tech mods potentially cover the racial changes to machine units, so they may not bother with visual or ability modifiers.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Regarding the secret techs and races, I am hopeful that secret techs will be able to be reduced to their bare essence, and then rebuilt in the image of the race using it.

It's probably/definitely a huge amount of work but, as an example:

Promethean is all about fire: immunity to fire, fire as a cleansing agent, purging the planets.

So, when matched with Kir'ko, instead of the Purifier as a unit, unlock the same abilities as mods and put them on the Kir'ko infantry (fire incinerator, launch plasma bombs) and unlock innate fire resistance.

Done right, it would make this particular pairing very distinct.

The doomsday victory condition linked to Promethean doesn't depend on race actually, as it is, iirc, fill the atmosphere with gas and light a match.

Vanguard would be more "vanilla" Promethean, as in more directly analogous.
 

Liberty_Valance

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Would be nice if secret tech based infantry units changed shape at least to match their race.

I'm probably against this (unless of course the unique visuals were also accompanied by new abilities), especially if they want to bring out new races and secret techs easily, they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the class's in aow3 making +30 class units each time for every introduced race.
 

Fenraellis

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I would argue that Infantry, or rather 'Biological unit that is a representative of the Faction', is a specific enough subgroup that is shouldn't be a great hassle. Obviously, it depends on the particular Secret Tech, but Promethean only has one. Xenoplague might have one, but feels like zero(unless a mutated subject of the faction is their T2). Psynumbra is right along there with zero to one most likely. "-sis" seems like they might be Cyborgs of some kind(at least the flavor of the Secret Tech suggests it), and if so are likely unaffiliated to Faction appearance(special exception, but I feel if they are Cyborg-type units, then perhaps they should adopt Assembly appearances when played by Assembly). VoidTech and Celestian are up in the air, but in general only the T2 slot sems likely to show Faction representation in most cases, as humanoid T3 units seem rare so far. With Valkyrie being an exception(and a squishy one at that!), and probably a beast-riding Amazon, or simply some sort of Battle Mistress that's on foot.

Anyway, if we make the reasonable presumption that, on average, only one unit per Secret Tech is in representation of Faction selection(potentially some with zero, maybe some with two), then that's only six extra units to design, with minor tweaks between them to adjust for faction aesthetics and body types. Thirty-six total across all combinations, with many being relatively minor tweaks. In particular, Vanguard, Amazon and Syndicate appear to share a similar body type. Possibly Assembly, too, for their less monstrous units, from what we've seen of their heroes.

Introduce a new Secret Tech, and that's another six units(or none, or twelve or even eighteen, technically), or introduce another Faction, and that's still only another six units(with relatively minor tweaks on the existing designs, depending on physiology of the introduced Faction) on top of the Faction's units. Sure, it gets a bit more complicated a couple expansions down the line, especially if they release multiple Secret Techs and/or Factions in a single Expansion(I would still think there might be at least one of each, though, alongside an NPC-Faction, and whatever new game mechanics would be released).

Golden Realms would be the equivalent of an extra Faction, counting the Halflings and Wild Magic mostly. Eternal Lords would be much larger, with two Factions, and a Secret Tech, more or less, worth of additions. Hopefully, we get expansions closer to Eternal Lords, but we'll see. I'm just hoping for a Faction and Secret Tech, at least, per expansion, if possible. Although I would also be interested in simply getting multiple new Secret Techs at once, along with whatever else comes with them. New Factions are more dynamic, though, for obvious reasons.

That said, I'll point out that the far and away most subscribed Mod for AoW 3 is the Racial Class unit reskin mod, by the lovely Tibbles(who also helped or developed Triumphant Heroes and Extra Support Units). Inevitably, if the Devs don't do it a Modder will, but I'm personally in favor of the visual Faction variation being built-in to the core game. I know, though, that mechanical variation outside of core Faction traits won't exist on the units, simply due to Unit Mods fulfilling that purpose, and am perfectly content with that.
 

Liberty_Valance

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I see where you coming from but still would avoid this, it just adds to many complications the more factions and class's they add. The more streamline the process the more likely were going to see more dlc's.

Lets go hypothetical, and were just talking about reskinned class units only...
DLC 1 - 3 new factions! no biggie 6 x 3 = 18 new each, eh not too bad!

DLC 2 - 3 new class units 6 races, 3 dlc races = 9 new class units, nothing!

DLC 3 - 3 new factions, (now 12 factions yay!) 3 x 9 (including dlc class's) = 27 units....eh what the hell did we do!

DLC 4 - ya know what this is just getting to much, lets to make a new game... AOW's Western!

And for mods, well simply it would be a nightmare, a modder would need to make compatibility patchs all over the place which would also frustrate subscribers, if they avoid this whole situation, everything, just works, triumph could release 50 new factions and 50 new class's with minimum effort, and not spend the a chunk of resources retracing their steps every time with reskins.

Much prefer someone awesome like tibs to make awesome cosmetics, if their were cries for it.
 
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Liberty_Valance

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Your most likely right and its not profitable better to release them seperate! ;p I dunno, i cant speak on thier behalf but i do know your more likely to see more factions and and class's if the art team isnt bogged down creating reskin class units. And i understand others, probably most dont like modded races but i do, and love to see modded classes with players telling thier own story for some crazy tech of the star union, if say you have 4 classes, and 4 races made seperate by 8 different modders it going to get complicated very quickly to have them all working with reskins, if they dont rely on reskin alone they all work, snug like a glove. Hell even a realistic scenario one new class and one new race and the modders dont get along. Subs can still enjoy both seamlessly without either of them or a third party making a patch.

Dont get me wrong i love the visuals and its a nice way to show whos who but it just isnt very practical in my mind.

I also want them to try and move away from humanoid like races if possible, nothing would make me more excited if they just said they are making a race of pudding emoji's because its scifi and only need an arbitrary reason to justify why they are there. Starting trais 'Party Pooper'. They have a clean slate with a new game, and with a scifi theme no boundaries, reskins to me would just bog them down.
 
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BloodyBattleBrain

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Visual variety is one of those things that the game will be judged on at release.


I'd say they should make things varied.


May not be fair but people/reviewers are finicky.

EL got such great reviews because it is very well presented.

The underlying game is not very good but reviewers and casuals will play for 20 hrs or less so consider things like visuals and *obvious* variation as hooks.

Aow3 is a great game but people still criticise it because apparently Warlord is the same regardless of race.

It's really not but compared to ELs front loaded faction variation, where you are forced to play as just one faction per playthrough (no absorption of other factions) and each faction has a central gimmick and 3 (!) Units only (2 of which you have to research iirc) then having elven Warlord and orc Warlord share seven units gives the impression of being "the same."


Sometimes people want the puddle and not the ocean.

So I vote for more visual variety.
 

Liberty_Valance

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I think the best thing if it must be pushed would be to brainstorm more neutral solution, a player likes to see thier races with more visual identity to classes, we have mods which are awesome, another thought without them having to sculpt up new characters would be shader overides -
Alot of players loved to show the necromancer ghoul curse shader of units it identifies them unique to that class, so that works more as an overlay the texture maps thrown over it with some transparency.

A shader overide would replace or embeded them into another shader so you could have say the vanguard trooper going in a stealth mode or covered in fungus spores, heres a visual. These could be linked directlt to a requisit added via one of the class's
ShaderGraphScreenshot.jpg


434full.jpg



Other thoughts on this, is perminent particles (which isnt a new concept but translates better in a scifi game). The goblins inheritly stinky were particles link directly to an ability, note particles dont need to be be moving they can be static geometric peices overlayed over the unit, so the vanguard trooper could be protected by a swarm of insects or a energy barrier.
images


 
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