Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Dev Diary #5: Tactical Combat

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Fluksen

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@Tombles and all others thanks for all the replies!
Maybe I should have been more clear, what makes me unsure about the new damage formula is that it seems a bit harder now to estimate it's effect. And that kind of estimations are not important in the fight because there you have these really nice damage projection info, but when levelling/equipping a hero. In AoW3 I could quickly do a guestimation of the effect on the fly (e.g. +1 defense will let him take 1 phys damage less per attack). With the new Unit Mods I would assume that it's the same, so probably you will have to decide more often on such things as +1 def or +5HP etc., yet calculating the effect becomes harder (or at least this is what it seems like for me).

Of course as you and others pointed out there are also benefits with the new formula, among others that it works better for:
the wide range of damage values we need for this game
So I'm quite sure you made the right decision and maybe certainly I'll learn to deal with that once the game is out :D
 

Rhaeg

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That said, for a T3 EIGHT XP for a level seems excessively low, no matter the system, because it suggests that the XP gain is based on very low numbers (like 1).

Do we already know then how many levels there are for units? The total number might have increased with small bonuses per level. The only thing that screenshot shows is that a new recruit level T3 unit needs 8 XP to gain a level. We have no idea how meaningful that level will be which makes it hard to draw any big conclusions from it.
 

Tombles

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In this case I would like to point out something:
This is all true! However Planetfall uses a totally different XP system than AoW3 (units get awarded XP at the end of battle for units killed, rather than for taking actions during battle) so far less granularity



Yeah, that is an unfortunate side effect of the system. Players can roughly assume each point is 10-5%, but other than that they'll just have to rely on "Bigger number better"!
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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When this Dev Diary was announced, I got an awful lot of questions and requests for explanations


*cough*...sorry about that.

index.php



Does indeed look nice. Does this mean combat in cities will be like in AoW3, with the city art in the background but all the fighting just outside?

I assume those are DVAR infantry, which is cool then as they carry shields.


edit: and a DVAR Hovercraft?

index.php


That aircraft looks like an Osprey. Interesting. Will different aircraft have different properties?


Also, I notice "Spacers" at least twice. Intriguing. Is this an Ouster reference or simply pirates?
 
Last edited:

Pyoro

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Good stuff, I think.

At first, I was kinda skeptical about scifi infantry missing anything in the rages portrayed here. So I thought it might feel contrived; "unrealistic". Maybe even unintentionally comical ("look at the guy with a sniper rifle, doesn't even hit somebody 20 meters away!"). Then of course I remember that everything's turn-based so people kinda don't actually just stand around in the middle of nowhere and wait to be shot at but are just portrayed as such for the sake of game mechanics. So now it's making a bit more sense.

Although I still feel that various cover-taking actions (maybe units can go prone or something?) compared to the (relatively) open AoW3 battles would make sense.

But ultimately good gameplay matters first.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Will some races (such as space dwarves) be able to drop turrets and deploy them during battle?

The Vanguard specialize in drones and autonomous robots, their engineer unit can deploy a turret while their T4 specializes in launching various types of drones in combat to provide defensive and offensive support.

I honestly expected this to be a DVAR thing, so I am very curious now.

Will there be the possibility to burn battlefields down, effectively creating fire barriers?

The Promethean specialize in weapons that leave areas of the battlefield on fire, providing area denial abilities. They can also mod their units to be immune to this fire, or even gain buffs from it, allowing them to reshape the battlefield to their advantage.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Are there any insta-death abilities, like disintegrate in AoW3?

There are indeed! For example, the Plasma Disintegrator Module is an end game mod for laser weaponry, allowing attacks to strip armor and giving a chance to insta-kill tier 1 and 2 units.

Good! I like how it's even called disintegrator...

What formula will be used to calculate damage?

AoW3’s damage formulas use flat damage reduction, which does not cope well with the wide range of damage values we need for this game, so we’re using a formula that reduces damage proportionally.

I = Incoming damage
D = Actual damage taken
R = Damage resistance (sum of shields, armor and elemental resistance)

D = I x 0.9^R


The formula also has diminishing returns; the first few points of resistance reduce damage by roughly 10% each, but as more is stacked, this decreases rapidly. The difference between 10 and 11 resistance is only 4%.


Good stuff to know. So, if my attack is 20, and your (R) value is 14, the formula is D=20 * (0.9*14) ? Actual damage taken = 20 (my attack value) X 12.6 (0.9*14)...gives me 252. :O:O

I think the x sign should be a minus sign? Or am I going crazy? Maths more advanced than working out taxes is not something I am good at.


If it is a divide sign then it becomes 20 - 12.6, which gives 7.4, which (bearing in mind all we know is heavily coloured by the AoW3 system) seems more reasonable.
 

Jean-Luc

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That hit chance system is surprisingly sensible and easy to understand. :p

So will armor and shields stack against attacks they're both valid against? Will 4 ar and 4 sh generate 8 def against a generic ranged attack for example?
 

Bob5

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Good stuff to know. So, if my attack is 20, and your (R) value is 14, the formula is D=20 * (0.9*14) ? Actual damage taken = 20 (my attack value) X 12.6 (0.9*14)...gives me 252. :O:O

I think the x sign should be a minus sign? Or am I going crazy? Maths more advanced than working out taxes is not something I am good at.


If it is a divide sign then it becomes 20 - 12.6, which gives 7.4, which (bearing in mind all we know is heavily coloured by the AoW3 system) seems more reasonable.

It's an exponent. So with a value of R of 14, the formula is 20 * (0.9^14) or 20 * (0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9) = 4.57
 

Jolly Joker

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This is all true! However Planetfall uses a totally different XP system than AoW3 (units get awarded XP at the end of battle for units killed, rather than for taking actions during battle) so far less granularity
That may be, but for the "problem" at hand it makes no difference: once you want to "award" XP bonusses (or malusses) for whatever reason (whether as a percentage or flat addition), a certain base level as smallest possible XP gain has advantages.

I will speculate now that killing a unit will gain as much XP as the tier worth. So a T1 unit will gain 1 point. If there is an XP bonus of 50% in place, that bonus will either be rounded down to 0% or rounded up to 100%, which is not good. Even if a T1 unit killed will gain 2 points this won't change anything. While now 50% is fine, everything else will still present a problem. Additionally, higher numbers allow finer tuning when it comes to the level-up ladders. If 8 XP are needed for a T3 to level up, what is then needed for a T1, a T2 and a T4? Could it be, like 2, 4, 8, 16 (and would that be the XP values of the tiers, then, as well)? If you multiplay this by 5, for example, you are at 10, 20, 40 and 80, and suddenly a 30% XP bonus doesn't need to be rounded anymore. Giving it a x10 means, that even 5% increments can be done exactly, which would probably be ideal.

You may also want to experiment later with XP values and level-up ladder values, and you simple have more options with higher numbers, which is also true for "irregular" units like Heroes which somehow have to be fitted into that.
 

Tombles

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Sorry, JJ, I accidentally cut off the second half of my response to you :/

What I meant to type was:

This is all true! However Planetfall uses a totally different XP system than AoW3 (units get awarded XP at the end of battle for units killed, rather than for taking actions during battle) so far less granularity is needed. However, the XP values are still very rough and need to be rebalanced, I will pass your comments on to the person in charge of that.
 

Tombles

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So will armor and shields stack against attacks they're both valid against? Will 4 ar and 4 sh generate 8 def against a generic ranged attack for example?

Yes!

If it is a divide sign then it becomes 20 - 12.6, which gives 7.4, which (bearing in mind all we know is heavily coloured by the AoW3 system) seems more reasonable.

As Bob5 says, it's an exponent. So, 0.9 to the power of the resistance value. I tried to write it properly, but I couldn't get the forum software to display superscript!
 

Jean-Luc

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First instinct with shields was to see them simply as this game's resistance but it's quite a different functionality. It's something veteran players will need to get used to more than new ones ironically. In any case I approve.
 

Jolly Joker

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Sorry, JJ, I accidentally cut off the second half of my response to you :/

What I meant to type was:

This is all true! However Planetfall uses a totally different XP system than AoW3 (units get awarded XP at the end of battle for units killed, rather than for taking actions during battle) so far less granularity is needed. However, the XP values are still very rough and need to be rebalanced, I will pass your comments on to the person in charge of that.
Ah, okay. :)
Great.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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As Bob5 says, it's an exponent. So, 0.9 to the power of the resistance value. I tried to write it properly, but I couldn't get the forum software to display superscript!


OK, so if the Walker has 8 defence, and I attack with 20 damage, it should look like this:

Damage = (20) times (0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9)==> 20* 0.430 = 8.6 damage.

Is this correct?
 

Gloweye

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Google can also calculate things for you. Like some coding languages like for example python, it'll understand ** as a power. So that's an easy shortcut.
 

Dwarfurious

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What faction does the phoenix walker belong too? As Ambassador of the Dvar; i claim it for the Dvar faction. Plasma cutters and flamethrowers are useful shaping tools.

Also it seems kind of silly that ranged units can do point blank shots on melee.. They get an accuracy penalty for this or bonus? Maybe the Melee guy should get his counter-attack BEFORE the ranged guy gets his point blank shot? Thats probably some skill already in game though.