Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Dev Diary #44: The Growth NPC Faction

[TheGrinningMan]

Based on what most streamers played, the preference for players is to stick with whatever seems most inline with their race's default damage and theme. So Vanguard players all picked promethean. Amazons all picked xenoplague. Kir'ko and Dv'ar where the only ones with any variety, though only a little. It's actually pretty frustrating after you watched one or two Let's Plays, since they're all playing the same race combinations.

I haven't been watching the streams, but this is kind of disappointing if I read it right. Was it just because streamers getting used to the game went for intuitive picks? Or did streamers trying to "play against type" end up with distinctly mediocre results?

A game with 36 different tech/race combos is always going to have its tier list, sure, but playing of counter-intuitive but thematically interesting combo should at least be entertaining to fiddle with and not just an exercise in opportunity costs. Kir'ko rebuilding their hivemind with cybernetic integration, pyromaniacal Amazons burning the old world to clear the way for the new, an Assembly that goes full death metal with psychic demons... be a shame if these are just plain less fun/interesting, mechanically, than the obvious combinations.

 

[Jean-Luc]

It's kinda how, in AoW3, one would naturally assume High Elves are supposed to go with the Sorcerer class even though, ironically, one of the best combos for HEs was the Warlord. All those mounted units and op Manticores.

Everyone's still new and people like to stick to a theme, they'll diversify eventually.

 

[vota dc]

Growth animals are so inferior to Growth plants!

It's kinda how, in AoW3, one would naturally assume High Elves are supposed to go with the Sorcerer class even though, ironically, one of the best combos for HEs was the Warlord. All those mounted units and op Manticores.

Everyone's still new and people like to stick to a theme, they'll diversify eventually.

Yes expecially before patches: they mounted archers were the only one with a special feature (no range penalty) while most features for other races (like goblin phalanx with life stealing) were added later.

 

[Vishniac]

Do people favour doubling down on their strengths with npc factions (and secret tech) or using them to cover their weaknesses?

As I shall probably never play multiplayer, most of my early games won't be very competitive; it shall come later.
For NPC, I'll choose my allies and enemies depending on the roleplay of the day.
For secret tech, I'll start with the obvious choice and then diversify in later games to find fun or unexpected combinations.

 

[HousePet]

Hard to pick that when on the race selection screen or when you only have one or two options for NPC allies. Unless you're deliberately choosing to set your enemies to be weak to you, which feels more like a difficulty choice.

Who says you have to pick that at the leader creation screen?
You can change who are you friends and enemies at any time.

 

[The Founder]

Are we able to recruit the salad units for the battlefield? I ask because if their units are not very mobile on the battlefield how are we gonna move them to other parts of the map? Other than that excellent Dev diary, this faction looks great. Hope you have something prepared for the next week, the final before the release

The Leafy greens are mobile (perhaps not super fast, but definitely not immobile).
There have been a few instances of battles with or against the Growth that show this off on Youtube.

Not only do the Growth units have normal moveement speed (24/32), they also all seem to have either Flying or Amphibious. So if anything they seem more mobile then most.

These guys are shaping up to be my favourite NPC faction so far. I'm definitely gonna' ally with them on my first playthrough as Amazons, but ironically I'm picking Promethean as my secret tech and using the Bio -> Thermal conversion mod on these guys.

"In the jungles of Lustria, plant burns you!"

I thought about Amazon Prometheans too. And maybe Celestial Syndicate. It is more interesting to try "odd couples".

Hmm, notably this is the only one of the NPC factions that does't really synergies with secret techs. Only the base amazon race has serious synergy. You can make an argument for xenoplague, since those units have biochemical abilities, but that's a stretch. It certainly isn't as good as many of the other ones.

Maybe that means we need a plant themed secret tech?

You forget that just having good realtions with them means you can field their units.
The mods seem not any more limiting then what you get for alliance with the Paragon or Psyfish.

So what stops mass spam of t1/t2 units in the mid-late game, then? Because I can certainly see that as the dominant strategy if such a mechanic were in AoW3.
Imagine being able to churn out 3-4 scoundrels/turn per city as a Rogue in the mid-late game, or 2-3 Golems/turn per city as a Dreadnought.

1. The production cost
2. If you want them to be any good, you need Mods
3. Mods cost cosmite. Cosmite is rare. To rare to waste on spamming cheap units.
4. Mods cost the same cosmite on a T1 and on a T4 unit. But the T4 is still more powerfull.

Thanks guys, some good stuff in there, nice. Not sure I will like the more X-Com RNG heavy combat though. I'll at least keep an eye on Planetfall then.

The Randomness is at least a order of magnitude less then X-Com. Propably less.

It is not the amount of randomness that counts, it is how you use it.

Who says you have to pick that at the leader creation screen?
You can change who are you friendsand enemies at any time.

There is some level of predetermination with Factions:
Like Dvar always hating Amazons and vice versa.
Syndicate and Kirko would be another obvious Rivalry.

Of course it could be more a circle: Amazons hate Dvar, but the Dvar do not particulary care for the Amazons; Dvar might hate some else like the Syndicate.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I haven't been watching the streams, but this is kind of disappointing if I read it right. Was it just because streamers getting used to the game went for intuitive picks? Or did streamers trying to "play against type" end up with distinctly mediocre results?

A game with 36 different tech/race combos is always going to have its tier list, sure, but playing of counter-intuitive but thematically interesting combo should at least be entertaining to fiddle with and not just an exercise in opportunity costs. Kir'ko rebuilding their hivemind with cybernetic integration, pyromaniacal Amazons burning the old world to clear the way for the new, an Assembly that goes full death metal with psychic demons... be a shame if these are just plain less fun/interesting, mechanically, than the obvious combinations.

I don't know how strong the unusual combinations are. Mainly because no one was playing those. For example, I never got a chance to see a non-xenoplague amazon run.

However I fully intend to mostly stick to playing against type. I just find that more fun most of the time. My first game is going to be amazon+voidtech, those rescue/abduct powers on the second unit are going to be so good for battlefield manipulation. Will work well with the lower range on the archers and having electric weapons will help cover the amazon's innate weakness to mechanical units.

 

[FerrokenFibrous]

I don't know how strong the unusual combinations are. Mainly because no one was playing those. For example, I never got a chance to see a non-xenoplague amazon run.

However I fully intend to mostly stick to playing against type. I just find that more fun most of the time. My first game is going to be amazon+voidtech, those rescue/abduct powers on the second unit are going to be so good for battlefield manipulation. Will work well with the lower range on the archers and having electric weapons will help cover the amazon's innate weakness to mechanical units.

Bio weapons aren't innately disadvantaged against machines, what with machines generally relying more on armour than shields, a lot of bio attacks and mods having armour debuffs, and most machine units not being resistant to bio attacks by default.

As for Laser Weapons, I'm not quite sure, I don't remember a lot of thermal resistant units other than Prometheans and Mineral Marauders.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Bio weapons aren't innately disadvantaged against machines, what with machines generally relying more on armour than shields, a lot of bio attacks and mods having armour debuffs, and most machine units not being resistant to bio attacks by default.

As for Laser Weapons, I'm not quite sure, I don't remember a lot of thermal resistant units other than Prometheans and Mineral Marauders.

It isn't that they're ineffective, it's that you don't have anything that's advantageous against them. Most factions have a damage channel or abilities that counter mechanical units, amazons don't. Picking voidtech gives a method to counter them that amazons normally don't have, as would synthesis.

 

[FerrokenFibrous]

It isn't that they're ineffective, it's that you don't have anything that's advantageous against them. Most factions have a damage channel or abilities that counter mechanical units, amazons don't. Picking voidtech gives a method to counter them that amazons normally don't have, as would synthesis.

If you really want arc damage against machines then there's a semi-early mod (third tech I believe, similar place to the one in firearms) in the bio research line that converts the damage type to arc, I don't see how that and a plethora of armour shred plus the Scan ability from the Biomancer are not advantageous or can't be used as a counter to mechanical units.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

If you really want arc damage against machines then there's a semi-early mod (third tech I believe, similar place to the one in firearms) in the bio research line that converts the damage type to arc, I don't see how that and a plethora of armour shred plus the Scan ability from the Biomancer are not advantageous or can't be used as a counter to mechanical units.

Oh I hadn't known that bio weapons had that alternative damage channel. Hmm, I might have to pick a different race then for voidtech....

Like I said, I want to pick something that has no overlap with the secret tech.

 

[FerrokenFibrous]

Oh I hadn't known that bio weapons had that alternative damage channel. Hmm, I might have to pick a different race then for voidtech....

Like I said, I want to pick something that has no overlap with the secret tech.

To be fair there is the opportunity cost/tradeoff of having to use up a mod slot for it, among other various factors. And it's not like the Amazons have any other known source of arc damage outside of delving into secret techs or using the units of other factions.

And I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any race or secret tech combination with literally zero overlap, by that logic, especially considering how common the kinetic and arc damage channels are. Personally, I'd consider using secret tech units that deal arc damage alongside bio units modded to deal arc as a sort of a 'bonus synergy', not to mention that you'll be picking secret techs for more than just damage channels, what with that teleporting/abducting unit you mentioned earlier, or that early voidtech mod that lets you give just about any unit the ability to pass through walls.

 

[Draxynnic]

I don't think there's any race that doesn't have access to arc damage. Assembly and Syndicate have it directly, Amazons and Kir'ko have it through Biochem mods, and the remainder have it through Firearms mods.

Thermal seems to be similarly widespread.

 

[The Founder]

I don't think there's any race that doesn't have access to arc damage. Assembly and Syndicate have it directly, Amazons and Kir'ko have it through Biochem mods, and the remainder have it through Firearms mods.

Thermal seems to be similarly widespread.

There is a difference between having a channel and being effective with it.

It does not really mater wich attack mods I put on Dvar Trenchers, they still go no repeating or longrange attack to use it effectively. I think they are one of the few units where not even the melee attack is repeating.

 

[Draxynnic]

There is a difference between having a channel and being effective with it.

It does not really mater wich attack mods I put on Dvar Trenchers, they still go no repeating or longrange attack to use it effectively. I think they are one of the few units where not even the melee attack is repeating.

Single-shot attacks can still be effective - you have less potential damage, but you can move further and still be able to shoot for full effect. Units with long-range single-shot attacks might actually be the hardest to defend against, since they can move to an advantageous position fairly easily and still do maximum damage. This might be the case more in Planetfall than in AoW3 due to the more significant cover and cover mechanics.

That said, mods which have a check on every hit are less effective on such units. In the case of the Dvar, the Trencher might not have a repeating attack, but the Bulwark does. If you want repeating attacks with Dvar, you can probably aim to mass those.

 

[thomasegghead]

Wow keen as thanks Paradox Team.