Hrm, one thing I didn't like with NPC factions in AoW3 is that they didn't have a racial happiness or governance upgrades.
Is it going to be the same again?
Is it going to be the same again?
Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Dev Diary #10: The NPC Factions and PvE Diplomacy
- Thread starter LennartGS
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Sector bases and other entities projecting claims can be traded, but not the claims themselves. You can use trade to nullify casus belli.
Their relations + upgrade mechanics can't be compared to AoW3. Ownership of a dwelling is different. In AoW3 they were basically cities with most of the city functionality like growth stripped out. In Planetfall they are attached your colonies as landmark provinces.
I'm unclear how that works.
Do you mean they attach to your nearest colonised province, or that you colonise their province that then gets a special landmark, or do you have to colonise an adjacent province?
I think I've missed something here.
Also, is there no racial happiness at all this time?
Do you mean they attach to your nearest colonised province, or that you colonise their province that then gets a special landmark, or do you have to colonise an adjacent province?
I think I've missed something here.
Also, is there no racial happiness at all this time?
That is exactly how I would picture it! I didn't expect it to be easy, but it would be a really cool and useful feature. I hope you can manage it, if not then I completely understand why. Thanks for the answer! I know I'll enjoy it with or without custom quests.
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I would imagine it's a sector that can be annexed(based upon a limit from population, research and infrastructure), as in the event image from the 9th Dev Diary:
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/383391/Exploring.jpg
Although whether they become able to be annexed as a result of diplomatic actions(or nullifying threats via military actions), or if they are annexed as a special action and automatically added, potentially bypassing standard limits, I obviously couldn't say.
That seemed to be the implication, but if the dwelling has claimed all adjacent sectors, and you haven't colonised a sector adjacent to those (as that would likely upset them if you claimed adjacent sectors) then it would be adding as a sector to a colony around 3 sectors away.
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Do we know that we should build that way to avoid incurring relation penalties? Or is building on an unclaimed sector adjacent to the dwellings claims acceptable without penalty?
Also, since you have to be friendly to absorb them peacefully they could allow you to colonize one of their claimed sectors or get a claim on their primary sector if your current colonies are too far away. That way you can eventually absorb them into a colony.
Could do the same thing for a violent take over. Conquer it and you get a claim on the sector regardless of nearest colony.
Alternatively, there could be a "Diplomatic Range"-like mechanic where Dwellings too far away don't even interact with you more than peaceful/hostile and no claims are gained for their sector through war (other rewards are probably appropriate then)
You attach dwellings to a colony (after having reaching the relation prerequisites), in the same manner you attach wilderness sectors or landmark sectors to your colony.
It needs to be adjacent to a colony; you need to have the right population prerequisite to expand for it be be exploited.
There is racial happiness in Planetfall. You atrocities will be remembered.
So reading some of the above great ideas about quests and trying to thunk of a way for the AI to also do them without an extreme amount of logic, i was thinking temporary sites spawn nearbye > objective > once completed the site dissapears. As a side note these site objectives could also be alerted to nearbye factions
So site objectives would limit combat based quests to a singler goal move to an area on the sm and enter, objectives require a leader/heroes to complete.
The dev team could have a bit of fun creating some quests, eg
Virus scenario
'Outsider could you please investigate a strange signal', they enter, atleast one hero needs to get to a marker before overwelmed by a zombie throng that keeps spawning every turn.
Or
Starship trooper scenario
'Outsider we received a distress signal,
Your team and some npc marines in a small fort have to survive 15 rounds against a horde of zergie monsters.
You could also have team based quests so you could gave an ally join you or just have two stacks of your own units.
This could include alot of the great above ideas of escorting npc's, holding ground, kill all, wave based, protecting objects, and throwing in curve balls like gas slowly killing all units, fire spreading etc, could be expaned more on where it could be only 1 hero/leader entering and completeing objectives.
Gives a real rpg vibe too! Like making up a pit people or xcom team, certsin quests may have restrictions like an ungerground research lab no flying or heavys, magnetic feild gives all machines haywire etc.
(Here is a crude visual i did with my phone of what i was explaining earlier about tm scenarios, green is the player or friendly npc's, red enemies, blue objective) the first is showing the player starting centre and defending objective, second moving through to objective)
So site objectives would limit combat based quests to a singler goal move to an area on the sm and enter, objectives require a leader/heroes to complete.
The dev team could have a bit of fun creating some quests, eg
Virus scenario
'Outsider could you please investigate a strange signal', they enter, atleast one hero needs to get to a marker before overwelmed by a zombie throng that keeps spawning every turn.
Or
Starship trooper scenario
'Outsider we received a distress signal,
Your team and some npc marines in a small fort have to survive 15 rounds against a horde of zergie monsters.
You could also have team based quests so you could gave an ally join you or just have two stacks of your own units.
This could include alot of the great above ideas of escorting npc's, holding ground, kill all, wave based, protecting objects, and throwing in curve balls like gas slowly killing all units, fire spreading etc, could be expaned more on where it could be only 1 hero/leader entering and completeing objectives.
Gives a real rpg vibe too! Like making up a pit people or xcom team, certsin quests may have restrictions like an ungerground research lab no flying or heavys, magnetic feild gives all machines haywire etc.
(Here is a crude visual i did with my phone of what i was explaining earlier about tm scenarios, green is the player or friendly npc's, red enemies, blue objective) the first is showing the player starting centre and defending objective, second moving through to objective)
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Exploration quests from Stellaris is a great feature to draw players in.
Can we have exploration sites where a hero can perform a non-combat exploration mission ?
Of course, said hero will not be available to lead armies or govern cities while they do this.
perhaps we should add the fifth X to 4X, since diplomacy is to EXPLAIN :3
Can we have exploration sites where a hero can perform a non-combat exploration mission ?
Of course, said hero will not be available to lead armies or govern cities while they do this.
perhaps we should add the fifth X to 4X, since diplomacy is to EXPLAIN :3
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How would that work? Never played stellaris, Like if the hero enters a run down bio lab and comes across some alien eggs, give them options: take the eggs, destroy the eggs etc...?
One option could be safer minimal rewarda the other could be a gamble, eggs could be a new unit in your army or runs away 'a dangerous alien got loose' lose relations with faction etc.
One option could be safer minimal rewarda the other could be a gamble, eggs could be a new unit in your army or runs away 'a dangerous alien got loose' lose relations with faction etc.
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In stellaris, as you explore, you run into anomalies. You assign heroes to scan them.
if the anomalies have higher level then your heroes, there is a chance of failing, there is also a chance of critical failure where your hero fails so hard that they explode.
succeeding always gives some fascinating lore, tech boost, and experience.
In PF, each class/race could have bonus to certain anomalies. Critical failures could also trigger a battle where your military must intervene in extracting the hero, rather than just exploding.
What about some more radical quest requests? Where you legitimately lose something significant in exchange for relationship with an NPC faction. A bit like an unprovoked demand, but can be safely ignored without consequence beyond stalling relations with the NPC for some time.
Ex: Give us x forward base permanently (X is on a lost settlement and if you are truly our friend you will return our rightful claim to us). Reward: Extra relationship. Refuse: No further quests or relationship gain for 20+ turns.
Ex: Give us all of a strategic resource you produce for 10 turns (Our people are facing a major resource shortage right now, we desperately need all the x you can give and we might make it through!). Reward: Several NPC units worth much less than the resource given up. Refuse: NPC faction cannot produce units and you cannot hire units from them for 20+ turns.
These give you ways to over-commit to helping specific NPC factions, if the player wants to. If not, they create some road-bumps that might encourage you to look elsewhere for allies for a time or take advantage of their weakened position to attack.
Ex: Give us x forward base permanently (X is on a lost settlement and if you are truly our friend you will return our rightful claim to us). Reward: Extra relationship. Refuse: No further quests or relationship gain for 20+ turns.
Ex: Give us all of a strategic resource you produce for 10 turns (Our people are facing a major resource shortage right now, we desperately need all the x you can give and we might make it through!). Reward: Several NPC units worth much less than the resource given up. Refuse: NPC faction cannot produce units and you cannot hire units from them for 20+ turns.
These give you ways to over-commit to helping specific NPC factions, if the player wants to. If not, they create some road-bumps that might encourage you to look elsewhere for allies for a time or take advantage of their weakened position to attack.
Some potential to expand on the science and exploration aspect,
- some sites can be hidden, and only show up as anomalies if there is a sufficiently skilled hero nearby. a hero must complete an exploration scan at the hex before you can see the site.
- Tech victory could be linked to exploration quests. Scanning hidden facility and successfully invading them may yield huge boost to research.
- Perhaps you cannot initiate contact with some NPC factions until your hero has performed a scan at a hex adjacent to their dwelling.
- Perhaps heroes can perform a scan of wreckages after a tactical battle.
- Perhaps certain exploration mission have tech requirement, but if a hero is assigned, she will immediately complain that it can't be done without so and so tech.
- Of course, there can be choice dialogues during these missions. Sometimes it's better to let the sleeping dogs lie and come back later.
Keep in mind all these work take away valuable time from heroes who could be leading armies or governing cities.
This could also bog down armies as they play the archeologist's bodyguard, in case of exploring in dangerous areas.
Overall it's a good bit of fun with a lot of potential for good world building.
- some sites can be hidden, and only show up as anomalies if there is a sufficiently skilled hero nearby. a hero must complete an exploration scan at the hex before you can see the site.
- Tech victory could be linked to exploration quests. Scanning hidden facility and successfully invading them may yield huge boost to research.
- Perhaps you cannot initiate contact with some NPC factions until your hero has performed a scan at a hex adjacent to their dwelling.
- Perhaps heroes can perform a scan of wreckages after a tactical battle.
- Perhaps certain exploration mission have tech requirement, but if a hero is assigned, she will immediately complain that it can't be done without so and so tech.
- Of course, there can be choice dialogues during these missions. Sometimes it's better to let the sleeping dogs lie and come back later.
Keep in mind all these work take away valuable time from heroes who could be leading armies or governing cities.
This could also bog down armies as they play the archeologist's bodyguard, in case of exploring in dangerous areas.
Overall it's a good bit of fun with a lot of potential for good world building.
While personally I am against any notion of 'scanning hexes', outside of location triggers in pre-made/campaign maps, there were a couple of points you mentioned that made me think.
1. Treasure site where after exploring it, you have two options:
a) Loot the site now for what rewards you can get.
b) Reduce or eliminate potential rewards now, with the choice to research something(relatively low tech cost) that will allow access further into the site, such as security codes. The tradeoff to the second choice being that a player would need to either bring back or maintain a stack of sufficient strength to explore further into the site, which may or may not be safe depending on the location
2. Along a similar vein, having some tier(s) of treasure sites(comparable to Legendary or Mythic from AoW3) being locked behind a broad-scope research, "Cryptoanalysis" or something, to enable access to them. This would also gate potential yields from said sites. Perhaps this would, rather than enable their yields entirely, be used to fully unlock their yields instead, such that a player can get something from them if they manage to clear the site before they have the research acquired.
2b. Similar to above, have Landmark sectors require landmark-specific research to unlock access to their chain of unlocks. This may already effectively be in effect, though, in that they are implied to unlock access to a mix of doctrines and/or units anyway.
I like the concept that there’s a realistic chance of failing a quest. It adds some tension.
In AoW you usually know already when you accept the quest that you can complete it: For a typical mission (defeat the enemy stack) there are only two factors to consider
1) Is it possible to beat the enemy without casualities?
2) Is the reward worth the effort to bring an army to the corresponding location?
If you can’t be sure to win the battle at all (and risk the loss of a whole army) you probably wouldn’t have accepted the quest in the first place.
So I’d propose a type of quests that don’t implicate already a success – IE quests where the player is willing to deal with that kind of uncertainty because failing the quest doesn’t mean to lose a whole army. Two examples:
The dwelling asks to bring one of its units to a specific distant location within 10 turns. The way runs through (possibly unexplored) enemy territory. The player may decide to add an escort but he doesn’t have to and the risk to fail the quest always remains.
A NPC faction wants you to command one of its armies (partially randomly created for the quest) to defeat a group of rebels within 5 turns. For the player it doesn’t matter if he loses units in the fight as long as he wins the battle. The rebel troops are significantly stronger though, so it’s not clear for the player if he can complete the quest even if he uses all of his orbital support (“casting points”).
I would advice *against* all forms of escort missions. If you have to bring a unit somewhere, at least make us control it for the time being. Add an ability to it that it'll despawn in 10 turns, and a script hook that'll fail the quest if it dies or despawns. Then a area trigger at the destination that completes the quest and despawns it after.
Yeah, I meant it that way. If you couldnt control the unit and cant spare units for an escort either it would be just gambling. And despite controling the unit the mission can still be challenging.