Age of Sail speeds

[Dysydent]

I am working on a story set in the age of sail and I am still not sure as to my timeline. From what I’ve read so far, the average speed of a frigate around 1800s would be about 2-3 knots, plus a lot of zig-zagging, but are there any sources that can provide sailing times between, say Britain and the Mediterranean stations such as Gibraltar, Corsica or Malta?

I know that captain’s logs would be a good source, but those are kept in England and hardly digitalized and I won’t have time to go there anytime soon. Does anyone know where I might find those logs in a pdf form?

 

[Herbert West]

Paging @Abdul Goatherd

 

[DoomBunny]

If you feel like being a complete nerd, I'm sure you could find this out from some actual ships logs. A trip to an archive could help give you an idea of the day-to-day of things if you're writing something historical.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

https://sea-distances.org/

This will tell you the time to sail between two ports. Assuming you know the speed of the vessel, it'll give you a rough idea.

For example, USS Constitution - still sailing today - can do a top speed of around 14 knots under full sail with a favorable wind; but that is completely contingent on the speed and direction of the wind, directly influencing the direction it must tack.

 

[druebey1]

Honestly chose a ship to model the story's ship after, find the information and copy it. USS Constitution only did 13 knots USS United States did 11, etc but that was in 1780-1790s. after that, there isnt really any notiable sources that I have found. 11-15 knots was most any nations frigates rather 3 rate or Heavy Frigate up until 1860s. Just remember complement normally also was 275-525 depending... Also most notable sources on any ship, tells you how long it took from launch location to fitting location, thus you can estimate the knots per ship from that too.

Also the USS Constitution was a Razed Ship of the Line, She was the first of many to be considered a Heavy Frigate, surpassing even First Rate designation. So please bare that in mind when thinking of her, she is majestic... She though was designed as a Ship of Line.

 

[pithorr]

But... 2-3 knots is a pedestrian speed. I think it is too low. With such slow ships sea transport would be unprofitable. And navy vessels had to be much faster. I know that 14 knots was a top speed of the frigate like USS Constitution, but the average cruise velocity had to be 6-7 knots at least.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

But... 2-3 knots is a pedestrian speed.

Now think about being becalmed in the Horse Latitudes in a galleon. Sailing around the world on a ship powered by sails was profitable because it was so damn risky. The frigates are among the crown jewels of all sailing vessels, but even they are subject to the constraints of the wind and can sit for days on end waiting for the wind to blow. The bottom lines is each journey is going to be different, subject to the course the captain steers to utilize the gyre of the ocean currents and the tack he takes to ride the wind.

 

[Avernite]

Amsterdam-Indies was 5-6 months during VOC times, starting around 1600.

Amsterdam-Capetown-Jakarta is roughly 27k km (google maps is sadly not up to this task).

This gives an average speed of roughly 1.7-2 m/s, or 3.5-4 knots. Probably a bit more since I think google maps was underestimating (cutting off West Africa).

 

[XYN]

Amsterdam-Capetown-Jakarta is roughly 27k km (google maps is sadly not up to this task).

Yandex has a ruler: https://yandex.com/maps/?ll=73.3540...~13.35937500,5.53850944~8.78906250,0.34961874

 

[Avernite]

Yandex has a ruler: https://yandex.com/maps/?ll=73.354054,17.170100&z=2&rl=4.09624182,52.07993337~-11.60156250,-4.30835523~-7.38281250,-7.33173097~-6.67968750,-13.14124766~-0.70312500,-13.19406572~10.54687500,-20.36879072~6.67968750,-14.07682149~13.00781250,-14.93768948~10.89843750,1.16139481~14.41406250,0.58683436~11.25000000,2.99415324~15.46875000,3.71943257~24.60937500,12.20867304~13.35937500,5.53850944~8.78906250,0.34961874

Well I got pretty close then, but thanks.

Make it 3.5 knots (I think your picture slightly underestimates how close to West Australia the Dutch convoys sailed). This being a commercial route it is both faster (since it is perfectly aligned with trade winds) and slower (since it is all just merchant ships) than a frigate in the ocean. Not sure which it is

 

[XYN]

Well I got pretty close then, but thanks.

Make it 3.5 knots (I think your picture slightly underestimates how close to West Australia the Dutch convoys sailed). This being a commercial route it is both faster (since it is perfectly aligned with trade winds) and slower (since it is all just merchant ships) than a frigate in the ocean. Not sure which it is

Oh, I just put the markers randomly somewhere along the road for the demonstration. I have no idea what route exactly was used - but if they were sailing closer to the shores of Africa and such, it would be pretty much 27km.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Amsterdam-Indies was 5-6 months during VOC times, starting around 1600.

Amsterdam-Capetown-Jakarta is roughly 27k km (google maps is sadly not up to this task).

This gives an average speed of roughly 1.7-2 m/s, or 3.5-4 knots. Probably a bit more since I think google maps was underestimating (cutting off West Africa).

I am assuming that is a ballpark figure for an East Indiaman, which as you know is designed less for speed and more for cargo?

Are there any figures for a Blackwall Frigate on the India-England run? That would be much closer estimate.

 

[XYN]

 

[XYN]

Almost:

 

[Avernite]

I am assuming that is a ballpark figure for an East Indiaman, which as you know is designed less for speed and more for cargo?

Are there any figures for a Blackwall Frigate on the India-England run? That would be much closer estimate.

Yes, hence my remark later - it's a ballpark for an East Indiaman. But it is easier to pick your routes as trader than as warship.

 

[gagenater]

Yes, hence my remark later - it's a ballpark for an East Indiaman. But it is easier to pick your routes as trader than as warship.

You can make arguements either way on routes. The vast majority of traders will take the common routes and common routes only to and from major ports and usually in groups. However a ship on some sort of specialized trade trip might go almost anywhere. Military ships are more likely to take ‘unusual’ routes. Their large crews, ability to easily self protect and often better quality hulls and larger sail area mean they can take riskier ‘shortcuts’ in areas where sea handling risks are higher, where pirates might be a risk or where unusual wind conditions might simply be bothersome or expensive for a merchant ship. All might be worthwhile for a military vessel especially a sloop or frigate seeking a rapid arrival, some degree of secrecy away from normal shipping lanes, conducting unusual diplomatic missions, escorting valuables or just patrolling a dangerous area. Most major naval ships will stay in port most of the time in strategic locations OR spend their time cruising the ‘normal’ merchant shipping lanes to provide protection, police smuggling, etc.

 

[Eusebio]

But... 2-3 knots is a pedestrian speed. I think it is too low. With such slow ships sea transport would be unprofitable. And navy vessels had to be much faster. I know that 14 knots was a top speed of the frigate like USS Constitution, but the average cruise velocity had to be 6-7 knots at least.

This chart says much quicker

 

[gagenater]

This chart says much quicker

Your chart is in km/hr and his speeds are in knots. 6- 7 knots is about 11 -13 km/hr - right I between the carrick and galleon numbers on your chart - probably a reasonable assumption for an average. The chart even says it’s speeds are lower in bad conditions so a lower average is probably better to use for a really long trip that will encounter a range of weather that can’t be ‘timed’ to slip between.

 

[keynes2.0]

But... 2-3 knots is a pedestrian speed. I think it is too low. With such slow ships sea transport would be unprofitable.

Yeah the speed is the same but you are carrying dozens of tons of cargo per person and travelling for more of the day.

 

[DoomBunny]

3 knots is 6kph. Not massive, but then think that on land you are going by a naturally winding route, across generally poor roads, carrying everything with you on animals that themselves need feeding and driving, and on top of this you need to sleep (and the horses need resting; for proper horse care one should not ride continuously, but rather dismount and lead for a section of every hour).

On top of this, 3 knots is likely what you get once you consider a number of issues making sea travel harder (i.e., tacking across the wind), if one followed the trade winds one would likely be a lot quicker than 3 knots.