HolisticGod said:
I agree with HG's suggestions, sounds good, please everyone give your comment
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I agree with HG's suggestions, sounds good, please everyone give your comment
Kaiser,
Knights don't need a boost. I've already discussed the problems with Devil and provided she's given Greek instead of French and the effects (ALL the effects) of the bankruptcy are remedied, she'll be the eastern counterbalance to Navarre and Naples.
No need for anything further.
(though if it's possible, I'd like to move the capital to Thrace, because it makes sense and the no-land connection penalty will be a real blow. But I have no qualms with ruling the restored, Latin, Roman Empire from Rhodes
Orthodox would be nice too)
Knights don't need a boost. I've already discussed the problems with Devil and provided she's given Greek instead of French and the effects (ALL the effects) of the bankruptcy are remedied, she'll be the eastern counterbalance to Navarre and Naples.
No need for anything further.
(though if it's possible, I'd like to move the capital to Thrace, because it makes sense and the no-land connection penalty will be a real blow. But I have no qualms with ruling the restored, Latin, Roman Empire from Rhodes
Orthodox would be nice too
)
The story of Naples.
Well, i expected more calm life for Naples, but Damocles suprised me from start landing to Toskane with 19K and asking whole west italy (5 provinces) leaving me 3 east one (and Venice in future, ghe-ghe ) I had 13K supply limit and had 5K infantry+14K cavalry, but i didn`t know if Savoy has much cavalry to start war with it. Anyway i was in bad position - i kicked last Papal forces, and my troops were splitted, and surely Damocles harshly asked "tell yes or no now". So i agree to this offer, letting him take BB, inflation and be grabbed by wars with AI. I knew how BB works on Vhard, and what it does with minor country with many neigbors in 1.07.
And Savoy in fact went to a lot of wars, almost was killed by Carmagnola. I invited Milan to my alliance and was blamed for that, but it wouldn`t change facts - Savoy entered the war with Milan by itself and it should kill Carmagnola anyway.. Though Naples and Savoy were not only threators to each other, but we keep some friendship and made such actions - Savoy didn`t annex Mantua, Naples - Siena. I was in very long war with Papal pillaging it nice and earning money - i repayed my single loan and got some ducats from Aragon and Mantua by separate peaces. When i left this war i got 620 ducats in treasury, that is very nice for minor in 1.07b game.
Naples got 3.0% inflation for that, and honestly i could even had less than 1.0%, but pillaging worked very strange - perhaps of lag to host, so i should put slider to treasury for more time to get 40 ducats (in the same month) for pillaging 4 provinces. Around 1432 i was going to attack Aragon, got access via it, and wait until Savoy kill last Genoa forces, so they wouldn`t bother me But when i saw in Sicily 12 infantry + 10 cavalry, i decided to wait to make war with Aragon, letting it bother Savoy.
At this time (around 1430) Castile invited me to alliance and dowed Savoy (with austria and bohemia in alliance), so i honor it to take Mantua. Damocles asked me to kill 33K austrian, who siege lombardia (so Savoy can take control), but that is not what i gonna do with my 22K supply limit. I should take Mantua from him in this war according agreement, but Damocles attacked me at the same moment, when Bohemia brought more forces to Lombardia, so 54K siege it I whitepeace with Savoy and later pay 50 ducats to Austria (leader of alliance), so it wouldn`t watch on my Romagna. Damocles made war with many neigbors, but finally could grab all out by taking much inflation. But anyway his money was ran out and that would lead him to bankrupty..
Our truce will end in august 1435, so i prepared to this moment. Suprisely Savoy could even take Roussilion, Corsika and Sardinia, so i knew i should use moment now not to be eaten later. I used wartax and minting to earn some money before war, built 25K cavalry (to my limit), and in late 1435 told that i wanna Mantua. Damocles replayed: "No, take Lombardia from Austria, and then we switch". That was reaction i expected even Savoy had max WE, was near bankrupcy (halfing morale), and was not much clever to talk such way with me. So it deserves casus belle twice, and i have full right to dow him. He won first battle by equal forces in Mantua, then sent 12K cavalry to my 15K, retreating to Romagna (via river), and at this moment i saw his morale is halfed, though he won last battle (guess bankrupcy happened between this battles), i won this and next battles by bringing more cavalry, and sieges 4 italian provinces. Castile, Burgundy and Swiss AI sieges rest country of Savoy - if you are small country with some (or more BB) and suddently lose your forces - AI always attacks you if it is not in war in such cases.
So at this moment Damocles quitted coz Savoy was kicked... And well, he didn`t know, that Navarra finished sieging Aragon (i guess most troops killed by Savoy ), and was going to dow Savoy.
Frenchers: you let Brittany grow way too much Though when i got Brittany from Ganja i defend my french neighbors instead of kicking them
ciao
Anton
Well, i expected more calm life for Naples, but Damocles suprised me from start landing to Toskane with 19K and asking whole west italy (5 provinces) leaving me 3 east one (and Venice in future, ghe-ghe
) I had 13K supply limit and had 5K infantry+14K cavalry, but i didn`t know if Savoy has much cavalry to start war with it. Anyway i was in bad position - i kicked last Papal forces, and my troops were splitted, and surely Damocles harshly asked "tell yes or no now". So i agree to this offer, letting him take BB, inflation and be grabbed by wars with AI. I knew how BB works on Vhard, and what it does with minor country with many neigbors in 1.07.And Savoy in fact went to a lot of wars, almost was killed by Carmagnola. I invited Milan to my alliance and was blamed for that, but it wouldn`t change facts - Savoy entered the war with Milan by itself and it should kill Carmagnola anyway.. Though Naples and Savoy were not only threators to each other, but we keep some friendship and made such actions - Savoy didn`t annex Mantua, Naples - Siena. I was in very long war with Papal pillaging it nice and earning money - i repayed my single loan and got some ducats from Aragon and Mantua by separate peaces. When i left this war i got 620 ducats in treasury, that is very nice for minor in 1.07b game.
Naples got 3.0% inflation for that, and honestly i could even had less than 1.0%, but pillaging worked very strange - perhaps of lag to host, so i should put slider to treasury for more time to get 40 ducats (in the same month) for pillaging 4 provinces. Around 1432 i was going to attack Aragon, got access via it, and wait until Savoy kill last Genoa forces, so they wouldn`t bother me
But when i saw in Sicily 12 infantry + 10 cavalry, i decided to wait to make war with Aragon, letting it bother Savoy. At this time (around 1430) Castile invited me to alliance and dowed Savoy (with austria and bohemia in alliance), so i honor it to take Mantua. Damocles asked me to kill 33K austrian, who siege lombardia (so Savoy can take control), but that is not what i gonna do with my 22K supply limit. I should take Mantua from him in this war according agreement, but Damocles attacked me at the same moment, when Bohemia brought more forces to Lombardia, so 54K siege it
I whitepeace with Savoy and later pay 50 ducats to Austria (leader of alliance), so it wouldn`t watch on my Romagna. Damocles made war with many neigbors, but finally could grab all out by taking much inflation. But anyway his money was ran out and that would lead him to bankrupty..Our truce will end in august 1435, so i prepared to this moment. Suprisely Savoy could even take Roussilion, Corsika and Sardinia, so i knew i should use moment now not to be eaten later. I used wartax and minting to earn some money before war, built 25K cavalry (to my limit), and in late 1435 told that i wanna Mantua. Damocles replayed: "No, take Lombardia from Austria, and then we switch". That was reaction i expected even
Savoy had max WE, was near bankrupcy (halfing morale), and was not much clever to talk such way with me. So it deserves casus belle twice, and i have full right to dow him. He won first battle by equal forces in Mantua, then sent 12K cavalry to my 15K, retreating to Romagna (via river), and at this moment i saw his morale is halfed, though he won last battle (guess bankrupcy happened between this battles), i won this and next battles by bringing more cavalry, and sieges 4 italian provinces. Castile, Burgundy and Swiss AI sieges rest country of Savoy - if you are small country with some (or more BB) and suddently lose your forces - AI always attacks you if it is not in war in such cases. So at this moment Damocles quitted coz Savoy was kicked... And well, he didn`t know, that Navarra finished sieging Aragon (i guess most troops killed by Savoy
), and was going to dow Savoy.Frenchers: you let Brittany grow way too much
Though when i got Brittany from Ganja i defend my french neighbors instead of kicking them ciao
Anton
Well, i have near 0.0 badboy (all annexations were left to Damocles), so if everyone would be reduced by it now, i wanna have this option for later..
Regarding boosting - i mainly agree, but all should be boosted equal, except countries, that were ruled by AI and lost start conditions. Granada definetely should be returned to start economic position, coz AI lost 300 ducats. I think Slargos agrees that whole Iberia would be too good present to him, and if he gets it, it would be very hard to beat him.
As far as i understand other two countries are Bavaria (ruled by AI much time) and The Knights, who`d better be orthodox and greek cultured (don`t look at italian lands ! :rofl: ). As to Savoy - Damocles buried his country by own moves, he shouldn`t expect that i help him to develop and later kick me and he should successed my claim to Mantua anyway. Now he doesn`t have any chance coz AI will eat him without me and Slargos even. So he may start with new country (boosted a bit), but don`t offer Muscovy or Suzdal - i explained once in this thread - they are not minors
ciao
Anton
Regarding boosting - i mainly agree, but all should be boosted equal, except countries, that were ruled by AI and lost start conditions. Granada definetely should be returned to start economic position, coz AI lost 300 ducats. I think Slargos agrees that whole Iberia would be too good present to him, and if he gets it, it would be very hard to beat him.
As far as i understand other two countries are Bavaria (ruled by AI much time) and The Knights, who`d better be orthodox and greek cultured (don`t look at italian lands ! :rofl: ). As to Savoy - Damocles buried his country by own moves, he shouldn`t expect that i help him to develop and later kick me and he should successed my claim to Mantua anyway. Now he doesn`t have any chance coz AI will eat him without me and Slargos even. So he may start with new country (boosted a bit), but don`t offer Muscovy or Suzdal - i explained once in this thread - they are not minors
ciao
Anton
Anton,
Mostly agree, though Savoy must be replaced by a Rhineland minor and it'll have to get a few provinces along with a boost.
As for the Knights, they are recieving Greek. I'm not going to put up a fight for Orthodox, but needless to say I would strongly prefer it.
Mostly agree, though Savoy must be replaced by a Rhineland minor and it'll have to get a few provinces along with a boost.
As for the Knights, they are recieving Greek. I'm not going to put up a fight for Orthodox, but needless to say I would strongly prefer it.
Savoy deal
This is how I see the savoy deal, I hope all will accept it and damo will rejoin, savoy is still very much play able... I removed the bankrupcy and a lot of bb, including all wars have ended. All though it has come to my attension that we have the rule saying max 3 provs per alliance in a war vs. a player, so tonio and slarg better decide which they want.
This is how I see the savoy deal, I hope all will accept it and damo will rejoin, savoy is still very much play able... I removed the bankrupcy and a lot of bb, including all wars have ended. All though it has come to my attension that we have the rule saying max 3 provs per alliance in a war vs. a player, so tonio and slarg better decide which they want.
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Devil, at first, i should increase my inflation from 3 to 7% only because of war with Savoy. Though if i knew he sent only twice 15K cavalry against me (and no other real battles), i could stay with 3%.
At second, i was planning to take Emilia, Firenze and Lazio by first peace, and then grab rest later. That means Genoa definetely turns to my sphere, i can let Savoy have islands and Lombardia (if he can take ot from Austria by himself), but no more in Italy.. If you remember AoM1 and Hive-Kaiser conversations, such deal is more fair. Sure i gain quite much for once, but that is result of very aggressive politic of Savoy at start, i just returning it to usual status-quo and getting a bit more as winner.
Well, returning more to those 1419 "Italy deviding" treaty, i realized only now that by west Italy Savoy meant not only 5 one-provinced states, but two islands and Genoa, telling "you have Sicily". Well, i had plenty of opportunities to attack Savoy in their bad moments (for example when he sieged France, Aragon+Provence took Piemonte and nobody would not let me to siege all italian provinces). But i looked for more CB in fact.. well, that is good example how bad to be too greedy
ciao
Anton
At second, i was planning to take Emilia, Firenze and Lazio by first peace, and then grab rest later. That means Genoa definetely turns to my sphere, i can let Savoy have islands and Lombardia (if he can take ot from Austria by himself), but no more in Italy.. If you remember AoM1 and Hive-Kaiser conversations, such deal is more fair. Sure i gain quite much for once, but that is result of very aggressive politic of Savoy at start, i just returning it to usual status-quo and getting a bit more as winner.
Well, returning more to those 1419 "Italy deviding" treaty, i realized only now that by west Italy Savoy meant not only 5 one-provinced states, but two islands and Genoa, telling "you have Sicily". Well, i had plenty of opportunities to attack Savoy in their bad moments (for example when he sieged France, Aragon+Provence took Piemonte and nobody would not let me to siege all italian provinces). But i looked for more CB in fact.. well, that is good example how bad to be too greedy
ciao
Anton
Devil, besides what will we do with British Isles, if we care about balance ? You grabbed a lots in France, and if you go there... I`m starting to think that four provinced Scotland would not be that bad choice... Or if Brabant would have anglosaxon culture (his dutch gives too less manpower for long playing), so at least British Isles would be splitted.
You grabbed a lots in France, and if you go there... I`m starting to think that four provinced Scotland would not be that bad choice... Or if Brabant would have anglosaxon culture (his dutch gives too less manpower for long playing), so at least British Isles would be splitted.
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Eh, and one more post :wacko:
Do you know who rules Iberia nowadays ? Right, Naples - i have Castile in my alliance, and surely could ask Castile to kick both players there But The Proper King of Italy The Kind signed white peace deal with Navarra, when Castile dowed it. I hope iberians will put in their hearts the legency how bravery diplomats from far country saved`em :rofl:
Do you know who rules Iberia nowadays ? Right, Naples - i have Castile in my alliance, and surely could ask Castile to kick both players there
But The Proper King of Italy The Kind signed white peace deal with Navarra, when Castile dowed it. I hope iberians will put in their hearts the legency how bravery diplomats from far country saved`em :rofl:Tonioz said:Devil, besides what will we do with British Isles, if we care about balance ?
it's nice to see you going back to my starting suggestion: to not add Brabant and to set a player scotland
I propose that Brabant is given their cultures and we can help Brabant expanding there.
devil said:I agree with HG's suggestions, sounds good, please everyone give your comment
Ok for all but one: BB reduction. Either we clear them, but then only after end of next session so eventually all players can go to full annexing minors or we stick to the rule of 10BB each 30 years (eventually we can rise that number).
It's not fair for the players who played to avoid to have sky high BB to avoid to fight senseless AI wars.
Kaiser is totally right
Or at least we should have opportunity to reduce BB by same value when we ask, if most played "find-n-annex`em" game.
Btw, i can`t understand where Navarra took such BB ? Looks like being with 3 provinces it had already more than 10
Or at least we should have opportunity to reduce BB by same value when we ask, if most played "find-n-annex`em" game.
Btw, i can`t understand where Navarra took such BB ? Looks like being with 3 provinces it had already more than 10
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Tonioz said:Kaiser is totally right
Or at least we should have opportunity to reduce BB by same value when we ask, if most played "find-n-annex`em" game.
Btw, i can`t understand where Navarra took such BB ? Looks like being with 3 provinces it had already more than 10
DoWs and annexation of Bourbonnais and Auvergne...
I've already explained to Slargos and devil why I quit, and it had nothing to do with Tonio believes it did. Though, I will say that he got extremely lucky. When 40k cav disappears out of thin air, and when you're fighting Richemont with 30k troops on one side, Carmagnola on the other (Who because of Naples got Mantua and was unannexable) and with 20k Helvetians invading all the time, and with Aragon, Castille, Denmark and Sweden invading by sea who managed to defeat and block my backup 15k army in Savoy...It just all became too much, especially at a time when Tonio was betraying our earlier agreement and creaming his breeches over the chance to get more. And I could've hurt him much more earlier. I could've force annexed him if I had a mind to.
Even when I had 150d, I would hire say 5 20d cav, and I'd get a lag loan. Unlike with a major, you can't keep a comfortable margin to escape the possibility (which is generally over a 100d) and I ended up with like 10 loans. HOWEVER, the loans wouldn't result in bankruptcy, so I was losing all my income for it but unable to get rid of it.
Most importantly however, my morale was stuck on yellow/weak. But it would NOT go up. It wasn't because of bankruptcy (because I hadn't gone bankrupt) and the bar was only a quarter full, but it wouldn't rise. So I was stuck fighting everyone for the last year of the game (around when my troops in Mantua mysteriously disappeared and I found myself chasing the Napoli army with like 1.2k cav instead of the 20k I had left after defeating his river crossing) with a quarter of the morale I should have.
Add to Tonio's creaming his jeans in delight at the time, and I was just distinctly unamused. So I quit. Oh well. The best of us bugger off from time to time, and the situation was that, to which I was either going to go crazy, or had to bugger off and cut my losses.
As for the BB wars...I was being repeatedly dowed by the same countries (and their alliances) before I ever annexed Tuscany. And, my cores sucked. Compared to the cores everyone else got.
So there. Someone call the waaaambulance.
Even when I had 150d, I would hire say 5 20d cav, and I'd get a lag loan. Unlike with a major, you can't keep a comfortable margin to escape the possibility (which is generally over a 100d) and I ended up with like 10 loans. HOWEVER, the loans wouldn't result in bankruptcy, so I was losing all my income for it but unable to get rid of it.
Most importantly however, my morale was stuck on yellow/weak. But it would NOT go up. It wasn't because of bankruptcy (because I hadn't gone bankrupt) and the bar was only a quarter full, but it wouldn't rise. So I was stuck fighting everyone for the last year of the game (around when my troops in Mantua mysteriously disappeared and I found myself chasing the Napoli army with like 1.2k cav instead of the 20k I had left after defeating his river crossing) with a quarter of the morale I should have.
Add to Tonio's creaming his jeans in delight at the time, and I was just distinctly unamused. So I quit. Oh well. The best of us bugger off from time to time, and the situation was that, to which I was either going to go crazy, or had to bugger off and cut my losses.
As for the BB wars...I was being repeatedly dowed by the same countries (and their alliances) before I ever annexed Tuscany. And, my cores sucked. Compared to the cores everyone else got.
So there. Someone call the waaaambulance.
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Damocles said:So there. Someone call the waaaambulance.
And there you have it.
Looks like Savoy is back on the menu, boys!
Tonioz said:Devil, besides what will we do with British Isles, if we care about balance ?
Brabant was given german to compensate on low MP, now we can of course discuss that. Neither had I counted on, getting such a large piece of france, but savoy and navarra were slow, I had only expansion in mind, and best thing was all french and english leaders went to visit damo and slarg
KaiserGab said:
Ohh I agree the cuts are for all and I did only remove bb as the rule said, though I did remove some inflation, and losing a 40k cav army just isn't funny.
Tonioz said:Devil, at first, i should increase my inflation from 3 to 7% only because of war with Savoy. Though if i knew he sent only twice 15K cavalry against me (and no other real battles), i could stay with 3%.
At second, i was planning to take Emilia, Firenze and Lazio by first peace, and then grab rest later. That means Genoa definetely turns to my sphere, i can let Savoy have islands and Lombardia (if he can take ot from Austria by himself), but no more in Italy.. If you remember AoM1 and Hive-Kaiser conversations, such deal is more fair. Sure i gain quite much for once, but that is result of very aggressive politic of Savoy at start, i just returning it to usual status-quo and getting a bit more as winner.
Well, returning more to those 1419 "Italy deviding" treaty, i realized only now that by west Italy Savoy meant not only 5 one-provinced states, but two islands and Genoa, telling "you have Sicily". Well, i had plenty of opportunities to attack Savoy in their bad moments (for example when he sieged France, Aragon+Provence took Piemonte and nobody would not let me to siege all italian provinces). But i looked for more CB in fact.. well, that is good example how bad to be too greedy
ciao
Anton
Well I partly agree but had you dowed savoy again, you would be facing my armies also... seceding emilia could do but then genoa is for savoy.
devil said:Brabant was given german to compensate on low MP, now we can of course discuss that. Neither had I counted on, getting such a large piece of france, but savoy and navarra were slow, I had only expansion in mind, and best thing was all french and english leaders went to visit damo and slarg
so in short:
1) no BB reduction till 1449 except some for Savoy
2) how many BB reduced each 30 years? 10 as said or more?
3) We need a scottish player or a Brabant with some island cultures (i think it would be better to have Brabant with that culture)
4) we need some boost of Grenada
5) we change Knights as HG asked (i don't know what he asked but i don't care
)6) we need to find a new Savoy player
7) ABout Bavaria/Saxony: what we do. Saxony is too north and too close to Pommern. ANd also too weak. I think it would be better to recreate a 4 prov Bavaria. Otherwise switch rezag to croatia.
I mean, he can stay as Saxony, but i think it stops my expansion and also mess with cores since we are too close.
Damocles said:
How could you expect anything else if you had highest BB and quite small country. Sure everybody dowed you. Btw, where did you lose 40K cavaly, i never saw you had so much in same army
I didn`t betray any agreement, you did by attacking me in Mantua. Three months before i asked if i can take Mantua, you agreed to that. That is not my mistake if you let austrians to siege Milan faster than you. Also i am free nation and i can invite anyone to my alliance, and Milan nicely kicked Genoa. Besides it was you who told that you probably killed Carmagnola (so i invite it to my alliance), while he was alive. I killed all forces of Papal and most of Siena in 1419. Also i let you resiege them in 1428, so you didn`t need to fight with AI, just sieging. I brought Parma in my alliance, hoping someone of AI annexed other AI - you got benefit of that. I don`t know what you are complaing at, and specially i don`t know what you mean by betraying - any action that you don`t like ? Come on, i`m not your vassal.
3 loans usually leads to bankrupcy minors game sooner or later. In fact the best thing is not take loans or take one and repay it 5 years later, or you`d be killed by them, like it happened with you
You attacked me by 12K vs 15K at Romagna, and when retreated it was around 5K, so i went to Mantua to kill rest. Besides it was mistake that you left full siege (6000) in Mantua instead of patrol when intercepted me.
I`m afraid you didn`t get that you dig own tomb by yourself by all your action and diplomacy. If Savoy offered fair deal in Italy, it can be alive now (read AoM1 to know where is border of fair deal). Specially elegant that Savoy directly betrayed and broke even own offered deal... Though i doubt Slargos wouldn`t kick you from Roussillion and Guyenne at this time anyway.
ciao
Anton