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Toio

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YodaMaster said:
I have a double problem with this event:
Code:
#(1593-1599) Upgrade the fortifications
event = {
	id = 326022
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326022" #Upgrade the fortifications
	desc = "EVENTHIST326022"
	#-#

	date = { day = 7 month = october year = 1593 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = september year = 1599 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326022A" #Erect new fortress in Veneto
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -200 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326022B" #Upgrade the provinces instead
		command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
		command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = -2 }
	}
}
#-#In order to reinforce the eastern border against the Turks and the Habsburgs, Venice decided to build a fortress. In this way Paimanova was built to the design of Giulio Savorgan, in a nine-pointed star.

Could fortifications in Veneto reach level 4 as result of the event (it is often the case currently)?
Action_b makes no sense if Venice is reduced to a single province (Veneto).

IMO..there should be a trigger of countysize =2

and also from 1419 , venice should be lvl 2 fortress and istria lvl 2
istria was the one of the first venetian possetion and already had fortress in the 13th century because all of venice's building stones came from there. according to penguin book, the stones of venice

I will start testing this in new beta
 

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these changes are fine and playable.........only issue I have seen is the veneto is somtimes reduced to minimal fort

#(1593-1599) Upgrade the fortifications
event = {
id = 326022
random = no
trigger = {
countrysize = 2
}

country = VEN
name = "EVENTNAME326022" #Upgrade the fortifications
desc = "EVENTHIST326022"
#-#

date = { day = 7 month = october year = 1593 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = september year = 1599 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326022A" #Erect new fortress in Veneto
command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = -200 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326022B" #Upgrade the provinces instead
command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
command = { type = fortress which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = -2 }
}
}




part of venice 1419 file

}
city = {
fortress = { level = 3 2 }
population = 60000
location = 370
capital = yes
bailiff = yes
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 2 }
population = 10000
location = 368
}
 

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Reduced because of siege?

My question is still the same: as result of action_a, is lvl4 fortress in Veneto intended or only lvl3?
If lvl3, we have to tweak fortress command and have fortress -3 followed by 3 x fortress +1
 

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YodaMaster said:
Reduced because of siege?

My question is still the same: as result of action_a, is lvl4 fortress in Veneto intended or only lvl3?
If lvl3, we have to tweak fortress command and have fortress -3 followed by 3 x fortress +1


yes , reduced because of seige, HUN-SER alliance around 1450 , very powerful, took out austria as well


Having never been involved in the initial discussion on why veneto was made lvl3.
IMO unless there is some unforseen issues , then I would start veneto as lvl 2 and let that event fire normally.

If its true that venice falls too fast , then we have to revisit this again.

But lvl 3 seems to be the intension until the natural lvl 4 can be used
 

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Toio said:
But lvl 3 seems to be the intension until the natural lvl 4 can be used
Change for fortress command in acton_a:
Code:
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = -3 } #Veneto
		#Veneto fortress +3
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto[/COLOR]
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto
 

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YodaMaster said:
Change for fortress command in acton_a:
Code:
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = -3 } #Veneto
		#Veneto fortress +3
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto[/COLOR]
		command = { type = fortress which = 370 value = 1 } #Veneto


fine

what about veneto starting in 1419 with lvl 2 and istria with lvl 2

and maybe negroponte should be lvl 1 as VEN relied on the navy to defend the island, which historically venetian commander Nicolo da Canal failed to do and was charged with cowardice

any thoughts
 

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Toio said:
what about veneto starting in 1419 with lvl 2 and istria with lvl 2
To be tested in next beta

Toio said:
and maybe negroponte should be lvl 1 as VEN relied on the navy to defend the island, which historically venetian commander Nicolo da Canal failed to do and was charged with cowardice

any thoughts
This will help OE for sure.
 

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As proposed here, modification for the Fall of Constantinople:
Code:
#(1424-1499) Byzantine refugees
event = {
	id = 326015
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Yellow]OR = {[/COLOR]
			NOT = { exists = BYZ }
			[COLOR=Yellow]event = 3353 #TUR: City of Men's Desire
		}[/COLOR]
		owned = { province = 480 data = VEN }
		[COLOR=Yellow]NOT = {
			owned = { province = 357 data = -1 } #Thrace
			owned = { province = 357 data = TRE } #Thrace
			owned = { province = 357 data = SPR } #Thrace
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326015" #Byzantine refugees
	desc = "EVENTHIST326015"
	#-#

	date = { day = 22 month = november year = 1424 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 14 month = december year = 1499 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326015A" #Accept our downtrodden friends
		command = { type = population which = 480 value = 5000 } #Crete
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 480 } #Crete
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 6 value = 2 }
	}
}
#-#After the fall of Constantinople and as the Ottomans advanced across Greece in the 14th century many Venetian outposts became filled with Byzantine refugees. To cope with this influx of people the Venetian authories decided to send most of the refugees to the island of Crete.
 
Last edited:

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YodaMaster said:
As proposed here, modification for the Fall of Constantinople:
Code:
#(1424-1499) Byzantine refugees
event = {
	id = 326015
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Yellow]OR = {[/COLOR]
			NOT = { exists = BYZ }
			[COLOR=Yellow]event = 3353 #TUR: City of Men's Desire
		}[/COLOR]
		owned = { province = 480 data = VEN }
		[COLOR=Yellow]NOT = {
			owned = { province = 357 data = -1 } #Thrace
			owned = { province = 357 data = TRE } #Thrace
			owned = { province = 357 data = SPR } #Thrace
			owned = { province = 357 data = SER } #Thrace
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326015" #Byzantine refugees
	desc = "EVENTHIST326015"
	#-#

	date = { day = 22 month = november year = 1424 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 14 month = december year = 1499 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326015A" #Accept our downtrodden friends
		command = { type = population which = 480 value = 5000 } #Crete
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 480 } #Crete
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 6 value = 2 }
	}
}
#-#After the fall of Constantinople and as the Ottomans advanced across Greece in the 14th century many Venetian outposts became filled with Byzantine refugees. To cope with this influx of people the Venetian authories decided to send most of the refugees to the island of Crete.


I disagree, history shows that no byznatine went to serbia or morea (at the fall of Constantinople) as these despots did not support BYZ, where in fact vassals of TUR.

The original text was far superior to what is written now, this text has no mention that the "royal" family who fled to crete became sub-capitans in the venetian army/cavalry
 

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Toio said:
I disagree, history shows that no byznatine went to serbia or morea (at the fall of Constantinople) as these despots did not support BYZ, where in fact vassals of TUR.
There is no Byzantine Refugees events for Serbia nor Morea. Added conditions are just for "consistency" with countries able to "reform" Byzantium. It is just a matter of logic. Why would Byzantine flee if Byzantium is reborn?
AI Serbia and Morea will never accomplish this anyway. Question is: should Serbia and Morea be able to reform Byzantium, as discussed here?
If no, we have to remove involved events because they are "High Fantasy" and have no place in core AGCEEP.
If yes (as it is currently), we have to take them in account for the consequences of the fall of Constantinople.

But Trebizond was not taken in account in current events and sequence for Trebizond must be reworked too anyway.


Toio said:
The original text was far superior to what is written now, this text has no mention that the "royal" family who fled to crete became sub-capitans in the venetian army/cavalry
Which original text? I didn't change the description of the event.
 
Last edited:

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YodaMaster said:
There is no Byzantine Refugees events for Serbia nor Morea. Added conditions are just for "consistency" with countries able to "reform" Byzantium. It is just a matter of logic. Why would Byzantine flee if Byzantium is reborn?
AI Serbia and Morea will never accomplish this anyway. Question is: should Serbia and Morea be able to reform Byzantium, as discussed here?
If no, we have to remove involved events because they are "High Fantasy" and have no place in core AGCEEP.
If yes (as it is currently), we have to take them in account for the consequences of the fall of Constantinople.

But Trebizond was not taken in account in current events and sequence for Trebizond must be reworked too anyway.

Which original text? I didn't change the description of the event.

Serbia will never reform BYZ but will take byz lands and represent themselves as the "next generations " of byz , BUT always as Serbia....They have currenty the BYZ eagle on their flag now.

with morea..........if it falls it should rise again as Morea and not BYZ.....facts can be gathered by link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots

The BYZ resurrection should not happen in morea , unless morea never falls and the 1482 maniot insurection is over
 

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Ok for the removal of Thrace owned by SER condition then (even if Serbia can "reform" Byzantium - BYZ tag - in SER_80328 => it will be a "new" Rome and we can say old Byzantine aristocracy can flee). But there is still a problem with Morea and the list of monarchs who are Paleologue. Why would Byzantine flee if Morea owns Thrace for whatever reason?

What do you propose for Morea and especially conditions for SPR_286009?

Better continue this discussion in this thread.
 
Last edited:

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errors in events below

#(1478) Treviso Arithmetic - Flavor
event = {
id = 326052
trigger = {
owned = { province = 370 data = VEN } #Veneto
}
random = no
country = VEN
name = "EVENTNAME326052" #Treviso Arithmetic
desc = "EVENTHIST326052"
#-#The Treviso Arithmetic, or Arte dell'Abbaco, is an Italian Venetian mathematics textbook written by an anonymous teacher in Treviso, Italy in 1478. The Treviso Arithmetic is the earliest known printed mathematics book in the West, and one of the first printed European textbooks dealing with a science. The Treviso Arithmetic is a practical book intended for self study and for use in Venetian trade. It is written in the Venetian dialect language and communicated knowledge to a large population. It helped to end the monopoly on mathematical knowledge and gave important information to the middle class. It was not written for a large audience, but intended to teach mathematics of everyday currency in Italy. The Treviso became one of the first mathematics books that were written for the expansion of human knowledge. It gave opportunity for the common person to learn the art of computation instead of only a privileged few. The Treviso Arithmetic provided an early example of the Hindu-Arabic numeral system and computational algorithms.

date = { day = 0 month = may year = 1478 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326052A" #Computational algorithms
command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
command = { type = trade value = 300 }
}
}

event should give more merchants

........................................................................

#(1428-1445) Rule of Sultan Barsbay
event = {
id = 24036
trigger = {
exists = MAM
event = 24035 #MAM: Rule of Sultan Barsbay
}
random = no
country = VEN
name = "EVENTNAME24035" #Pepper Monopoly
desc = "EVENTHIST24035"
#-#Spices, and pepper in particular, from the Orient were carried by Arab merchants and unloaded at Jiddah, which the Mamluks had control of. From here it was shipped to Egypt, and offered for sale to the Venetians, who dominated the spice trade from Egypt by this time. There were no other alternative spice routes to Europe, as Cyprus was controlled by the Mamluks. In 1426 sultan Barsbay decided to make pepper a royal monopoly by increasing the price of pepper, and then again in 1428 and 1430. The Venetians had a choice of paying up, or giving up the centerpiece of their trade. They paid. The Sultan's demands went up and up in the 1430s, and his successor continued the extortion.

date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1428 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1445 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME24036A" #Pay up
command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
command = { type = inflation value = 2 }
command = { type = trade value = 700 }
command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME24036B" #Refuse to pay
command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = 1 }
command = { type = trade value = -300 }
command = { type = inflation value = -2 }
}
}


if option b is a loss of merchants, then option a must be an increase of merchants if the venetians "pay up"
 

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I don't understand why mercantilism is involved in VEN_24035 action_a. Venice doesn't change anything and just pay. OTOH, refusing to pay in action_b means a real change for Venetian trade.
 

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This may come off as startling minute, but can we think about having the Venetian army start off in Venice-controlled Dalmatia, instead of Veneto, at the start of the Grand Campaign?
 

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ThanatosHelen said:
This may come off as startling minute, but can we think about having the Venetian army start off in Venice-controlled Dalmatia, instead of Veneto, at the start of the Grand Campaign?

for what purpose as the end results will now be the same.

I already tried this and HUN get beaten too often

i also tried Venetian starting from veneto . it all defends on which army ends up being the defender will win 80% of the time
 

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Toio said:
for what purpose as the end results will now be the same.

I already tried this and HUN get beaten too often

i also tried Venetian starting from veneto . it all defends on which army ends up being the defender will win 80% of the time
The purpose would simply be for the players. It's both annoying and confusing to have to move troops out of Veneto and rush them to Dalmatia, already under your control (preseumably from the conquest done by non-existant troops) in time to defend it from the Hungarians. It just doesn't make sense, and if it's a balance issue, there are better ways to go about it, I think. If you want Venice's acquisition of Dalmatia something of a coin toss, then also move some Hungarian troops so that they're starting in Croatia. That way, as you said, it'll depend on who's doing the most of the defending.

We remember the players, right? :p
 

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ThanatosHelen said:
The purpose would simply be for the players. It's both annoying and confusing to have to move troops out of Veneto and rush them to Dalmatia, already under your control (preseumably from the conquest done by non-existant troops) in time to defend it from the Hungarians. It just doesn't make sense, and if it's a balance issue, there are better ways to go about it, I think. If you want Venice's acquisition of Dalmatia something of a coin toss, then also move some Hungarian troops so that they're starting in Croatia. That way, as you said, it'll depend on who's doing the most of the defending.

We remember the players, right? :p

OH ok

well then the venetian under Arcelli where in veneto moving to istria and another army was in dalmatia under taddeo d'este (IRC) .........this is the historical positon, the HUN was leaving istria and also where in croatia

this is the original position
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = 664 }
name = "1st Army"
location = 370
infantry = 10000
cavalry = 5000
}


ask for split ........but I am usure if you can place half the venetian in dalmatia...maybe ragusa will have to do


On HUN troop starting areas...I have tried all scenarios.......its just a matter of timing when its so early in the GC

one of the last battles

VENEZIA RE D’UNGHERIA

Taddeo d’Este Niclolò di Prata P

(p) = prisoner


other VEN leader was Pandolfo Malatesta

I do not think the VEN need another leader, maybe an army split is enough
 
Last edited:

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Something like this:
Code:
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 664 }
		name = "[COLOR=Yellow]Lanze Spezzate[/COLOR]"
		location = 370
		infantry = 5000
		cavalry = 3000
	}
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 665 }
		name = "[COLOR=Yellow]Compagni da Calza[/COLOR]"
		location = 365
		infantry = 5000
		cavalry = 2000
	}
And Filippo Arcelli will be in Veneto with the 2nd army from start (beause of the higher number of soldiers).

Btw, couldn't we have Venetian names for both armies?
Same problem with "1st Fleet".

For Hungary:
Code:
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 810 }
		name = "Royal Magyar Army"
		location = 325
		infantry = 5000
		cavalry = 8000
		artillery = 0
	}
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 811 }
		name = "Balkáni Hadsereg"
		location = 366
		infantry = 5000
		cavalry = 2000
		artillery = 0
	}
Name for army is from armynames.csv. Better idea?

EDIT: looted provinces (to be added in 1419_Provinces_Misc.inc):
Code:
province = { id = 365 date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1420 } looted = yes } #Dalmatia
province = { id = 368 date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1420 } looted = yes } #Istria

EDIT2: reworked names for Venetian armies and fleet:
Code:
	navalunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 668 }
		name = "Capitano in Colfo"
		location = 370
		warships = 5
		galleys = 30
		transports = 5
	}

Proposed changes for 1520 and 1648 scenarios:

1520:
Code:
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 577 }
		name = "Lanze Spezzate"
		location = 370
		infantry = 10000
		cavalry = 5000
		artillery = 10
	}
	navalunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 578 }
		name = "Capitano in Colfo"
		location = 370
		warships = 28
		galleys = 30
		transports = 5
	}
1648:
Code:
	landunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 1100 }
		name = "Lanze Spezzate"
		location = 370
		infantry = 25000
		cavalry = 5000
		artillery = 30
	}
	navalunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 1101 }
		name = "Capitano in Colfo"
		location = 370
		warships = 20
		galleys = 10
		transports = 5
	}
	navalunit = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 1102 }
		name = "Capitano della Guardia di Candia"
		location = 480
		warships = 8
		galleys = 8
		transports = 4
	}
 
Last edited: