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AGCEEP: Order of St John

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This should work better. ;)
Code: 
		relation = { country = KNI [COLOR=Yellow]data[/COLOR] = 0 }

More important, the war trigger with country = -1 will not work at all. :eek:
I noticed that some time ago and wanted to report it, but then I forgot.

This is also true for the vassal trigger, so I would assume that country = -1 in triggers never works.
 
Third Angel said:
This should work better. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks. Norrefeldt should introduce that into his editing guide if it is not there already.
 
Third Angel said:
More important, the war trigger with country = -1 will not work at all. :eek:
I noticed that some time ago and wanted to report it, but then I forgot.

This is also true for the vassal trigger, so I would assume that country = -1 in triggers never works.
Click to expand...
Oh, is that really so!? Let me just try it tonight. I notice that it's not even mentioned to work with -1 in Havard's scripting bible, so it seems invented along the way.

Anything more you want to share? ;)
 
deleted :eek:o
 
Knights and maltese culture

I think we need to fix the order is some ways and maybe be able to help the game as well

I have a problem with maltese culture

1. Maltese culture never used in the game by anyone except when this event fires

Code: 
#(1523-1798) The Order of St. John is offered Malta
#by Crook modified by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 24001 #triggered by SPA_285124 A
	random = no
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME24001" #The Order of St. John is offered Malta
	desc = "EVENTHIST285123"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME24001A" #It solves our problem
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 400 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = removecore which = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = addcore which = 819 } #Malta
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }
		command = { type = capital which = 819 } #Malta
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = inf which = 819 value = 3000 } #Malta
	}
}

problem is that the order start with french and italian culture, so for historical truth we should have

Code: 
#(1523-1798) The Order of St. John is offered Malta
#by Crook modified by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 24001 #triggered by SPA_285124 A
	random = no
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME24001" #The Order of St. John is offered Malta
	desc = "EVENTHIST285123"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME24001A" #It solves our problem
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 400 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = removecore which = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = addcore which = 819 } #Malta
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = add_countryculture which = anglosaxon }
                command = { type = add_countryculture which = iberian }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = capital which = 819 } #Malta
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = inf which = 819 value = 3000 } #Malta
	}
}

But, this does not justify why the AGCEEP use 1 (hard to find) culture for use for only 1 state , when we can save this culture and make malta -----italian --------with the same results

what to do with this culture, my options, (in order preference)

1. make maltese --- Illyrian culture and fix my pet area up.
illyrian will be in Istria, dalmatia and ragusa

Ven will get illyrian and the OE will get it once they annex albania ( albanian being a pseudo illyrian culture )

-VEN will only gain 1 manpower
-forces HUN to fight down the corridors to TUR and aids austria in still getting slavonic instead of fighting VEN for slavonic lands

................................
2. make maltese --- Low German culture and place in
Holstein, Oldenburg and Bremen

DAN will get low german culture with annexation of holstein event
Swe will get low german culture in 1600
all german states will have both

DAN will get (if they take all ) 4.3 extra manpower
SWE will get same (if they take all )

..............................................

So basically my argument is why have a maltese culture for 1 state (order of st john) when they already have italian.

optimizing our resources while improving the game is what I see by maltese culture removal

THOUGHTs ???????
 
Last edited:
About italian add_countryculture command, don't forget we have only one culture possible in revolt.txt and Order being at Malta can be this way with Spain releasing the Order. In KNI_24001, you're right, Order already exist, this command is thus useless.

Maltese culture could be removed as separate culture (=> italian?) but why adding Anglosaxon and Iberian cultures to the Order in terms of gameplay?
 
Lower German encompassed a much wider area than that. And then for consistency sake you should also split middle and upper. :wacko:
 
Khephren said:
Lower German encompassed a much wider area than that. And then for consistency sake you should also split middle and upper. :wacko:
Click to expand...

then , late middle ages or baroque times :wacko:
 
YodaMaster said:
About italian add_countryculture command, don't forget we have only one culture possible in revolt.txt and Order being at Malta can be this way with Spain releasing the Order. In KNI_24001, you're right, Order already exist, this command is thus useless.

Maltese culture could be removed as separate culture (=> italian?) but why adding Anglosaxon and Iberian cultures to the Order in terms of gameplay?
Click to expand...

this is because in numbers of personnel supplied to malta in the orders history

Spain and france are about equal , then cam ethe english and lastly the italians

the italians was due to lack of one real huge kigdoms similar to SPA, FRA or ENG
 
YodaMaster said:
Historically, yes, but benefits in terms of gameplay?
Click to expand...

well the alternate is that since the order represents these various nations/states of men and the order commences with French and italian, then when the order settles in malta and gain maltese they should then have all other cultures removed (except for maltese.)

it does not make sense to give them one culture (french or italian) and not the others (spanish and english) especially since we have in AGCEEP maltese different from italian

there is still german culture to be considered as well

Why is Italian culture added at the moment ? what reason

either they (knights) get all of the 4 cultures or none ( except maltese)
 
Last edited:
YodaMaster said:
Historically, yes, but benefits in terms of gameplay?
Click to expand...
We have a couple of threads dedicated to the effects of culture in gameplay (I have to read them again, but I seem to remember culture only affects taxation by 30% and not AI decisions about which province should be attacked kept or whatever) and this other thread is about which culture should be in the game: Maltese and the division of German cultures were debated there too, iirc.
 
French culture is in KNI revolt.txt entry for obvious reason. We don't know where they will revolt and Greek, Italian (and Maltese...) cultures could be wrong at this time.

Once again, is giving Anglosaxon and Iberian cultures as freebies to a player a good thing for gameplay?
I presume Anglosaxon culture will be lost with KNI_24018 "Dissolution of English Langue".

And what about Cosmopolitan? ;)
 
Obviously it is more problematic to justify culture assignments for KNI since it is not a sovereign country but a military order with territory. However, I think French and Italian are appropriate culture choices. The order was founded by a Frenchman and prominently led by Frenchmen, and three of the eight langues were French. Much of the business was conducted in Italian and Latin, and obviously the order had strong ties to Rome. Also, Toio, where do you find: "Spain and france are about equal , then cam ethe english and lastly the italians"? I did some research on the order in the fall while fixing the move to Malta and do not remember reading this. Lastly, according to your justification, KNI should have french, italian, anglosaxon, celtic, german, castilian, catalan, portuguese (and get greek). I don't see how this would add to gameplay other than giving a human player cause for a WC.

However, I do agree with you assessment of maltese culture, and the usefulness of illyrian culture and breaking up german a bit. I think these are very good suggestions, but perhaps they are best postponed until the new map? I'm not sure.

Edit: And while I'm in this thread, I have to mention that I still think "Knights Hospitaller" is a better name for KNI.
 
tuesday4am said:
. Also, Toio, where do you find: "Spain and france are about equal , then cam ethe english and lastly the italians"? I did some research on the order in the fall while fixing the move to Malta and do not remember reading this. Lastly, according to your justification, KNI should have french, italian, anglosaxon, celtic, german, castilian, catalan, portuguese (and get greek). I don't see how this would add to gameplay other than giving a human player cause for a WC.

However, I do agree with you assessment of maltese culture, and the usefulness of illyrian culture and breaking up german a bit. I think these are very good suggestions, but perhaps they are best postponed until the new map? I'm not sure.

Edit: And while I'm in this thread, I have to mention that I still think "Knights Hospitaller" is a better name for KNI.
Click to expand...

I gathered info based solely on personnel (numbers) that represented the KNI in the entire GC timespan.
My point is , why do we give them anything except maltese (if we choose to keep maltese) ?..It seems that since the KNI , (as u say) was an order, then that order to me should either get : French, italian, catalan, german and anglosaxon OR only maltese.
The question is .... why only italian and maltese ?? . the italians already had an order... the order of St Stephen in which many Italians favoured instead of the St John one.

so to clear up what i mean

If maltese is retained
either KNI have
1. maltese only
2. maltese, french, italian, german, anglosaxon and catalan.... NO greek

if maltese is replaced by italian for malta
1. italian and french as per start of GC and no culture additions or deletions necessary

I also agree that Knights hospitallers is better, (we lost the vote :mad: )
 
Agreed to give only maltese culture to KOSJ after they move to malta?
 
YodaMaster said:
Isn't it the case currently?
Click to expand...

meant all other cultures for knights to be removed (except maltese which will be their new default culture)
 
the event in question should then be

#(1523-1798) The Order of St. John is offered Malta
#by Crook modified by Fodoron
event = {
id = 24001 #triggered by SPA_285124 A
random = no
country = KNI
name = "EVENTNAME24001" #The Order of St. John is offered Malta
desc = "EVENTHIST285123"
#-#

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME24001A" #It solves our problem
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 400 }
command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = removecore which = 481 } #Rhodes
command = { type = addcore which = 819 } #Malta
command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }
command = { type = capital which = 819 } #Malta
command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 481 } #Rhodes
command = { type = inf which = 819 value = 3000 } #Malta
}
}
 
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